[muir_redwoods]

I'm sorry to disagree with you but pacifism is a luxury only made sustainable in the presence of others who will protect the pacifist. Those who say they will not fight for anything have never held their own child.

[Noumenon]

Those who say they will not fight for anything have never held their own child.

Jsut so. Pacifism is morally and philsophically indefensible. There is no high ground there - just a morass of contradictions...

[Restorer]

Most pacifists really aren't. They just claim to be because they think it sounds ethical and helps feed their illusion of moral superiority. Einstein, one of the most famous pacifists of the 20th century, recanted and urged America to attack Germany when it was his people being attacked.

A true pacifist rejects all violence, for any reason. I have a rather disgusting thought experiment to smoke out fake pacifists.

You are tied up in a chair, looking through a one-way mirror. Under one finger is a button. On the other side of the mirror is your young child and a sadistic pedophile. If you push the button, he will die painlessly and your child will be saved. If you don't, you get to watch your child brutalized and killed.

If you refuse to push the button, you are a true pacifist.

If you push it, you aren't a pacifist, you are just posing as one. Any argument you have with Attilla the Hun or General Patton is not with the idea of violence as such, it is whether it is appropriate in a particular case.