? About the Soldier Killed On The Ground

3-6-02 | self

[paul in cape]

It seems to me that the soldier who fell out of the copter was captured by the enemy was then a Prisoner Of War. Therefore, he was not killed in combat, but executed as a prisoner. I've checked the newswires, and have yet to see the press release from Ramsey Clark about the mistreatment of prisoners.

[Polybius]

We refuse to call the people we capture "prisoners of war" because it would qualify them for a specific type of treatment under the geneava (sp?) convention. Can we demand our guys be classified as POWs when we don't extend the same thing to the people we capture?

Excuse me, but we refuse to call the people we capture "Prisoners of War" because they do not meet the qualifications to be classified as belligerents under the Rules of War.

The 1907 Hague Convention defines the customary internatitonal "Rules of War" and it specifically denies individuals such as Al Qaeda fighters belligerent rights. Prisoner of War status is such a belligerent right.

Even if Osama bin Laden is assumed to be the commander responsible for his fighters, the Al Qaeda members clearly fail the other three qualifications for belligerent rights.

It may be argued that Taliban members may meet all four conditions for belligerent rights. Those individuals that have been released in Afghanistan are Taliban. Al Qaeda, who deliberately targets civilians and attacks by pretending to be part of the civilian population of America, clearly does not.

REGULATIONS RESPECTING THE LAWS AND CUSTOMS OF WAR ON LAND
SECTION I
ON BELLIGERENTS
CHAPTER I
The Qualifications of Belligerents

Article 1.
The laws, rights, and duties of war apply not only to armies, but also to militia and volunteer corps fulfilling the following conditions:

To be commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

To have a fixed distinctive emblem recognizable at a distance;

To carry arms openly; and

To conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

In countries where militia or volunteer corps constitute the army, or form part of it, they are included under the denomination "army."

We cannot "demand" anything from animals such as Al Qaeda and expect to get it as they function outside the rule of law. We can only treat them as War Crimminals once we have them in our power.

[sam_paine]

More than likely he was killed as a combatant - not a POW.

Why are you the only person on this thread suggesting such a rational summary of the situation? Why are so many "gung-ho" types here assuming he whimped out and raised the white flag at first gasp? I too assume that this guy died fighting, and fighting hard...for he knew there was no alternative. God rest him.

[rbmillerjr]

yep, Ive actually seen 3 different versions of how he was left behind,,,,,the most recent is that he didnt fall out but did not get back on the chopper in the chaos - or a fast exit by the chopper.

I think one thing we cannot assume but state as fact. If he was alert...he fought his SEAL ass off until the end. And that would go for any of our special operations guys, as shown by Shugart and Gordon - and countless others we dont hear about for classified reasons.

[GussiedUp]

If he was alert...he fought his SEAL ass off until the end. And that would go for any of our special operations guys

Yes a horrible decision to have to make but I'd imagine they would rather be shot to death than be captured by those filthy pigs and tortured.

May God rest all their dear, brave souls.

[kassie]

May God rest all their dear, brave souls.

Amen.

[paul51]

Under normal circumstances we abide by the rules of the Geneva Convention, and I believe we should continue that course, else, the next conflict we find ourselves in could prove even worse for those in harms way.

This old argument starts getting tired when we are the only ones doing it.

[Leesylvanian]

The Geneva Conventions apply only to formal armies and combatants. They do not apply to terrorists who do not wear uniforms, do not belong to a formalized military command, or those who specifically target non-combatants. So, yes, they apply to our soldiers, but not the terrorist al-Qaeda members.

[twyn1]

... I too assume that this guy died fighting, and fighting hard...for he knew there was no alternative. God rest him.

If he was alert and uninjured I would also assume he went down fighting - but from the sketchy reports we've heard, I figured he was either badly injured or unconscious, most reports said he fell out of the chopper and was then "dragged" off by Al-Quaeda.

[rbmillerjr]

If Daschle is any indication we can skip the Vietnam history lesson and just watch this over a long protracted period. I believe if the popularity of the war recedes he will be there to undermine the war effort. He is not a leader. He is a power grabber at all cost.

[Lazamataz]

It seems to me that the soldier who fell out of the copter was captured by the enemy was then a Prisoner Of War. Therefore, he was not killed in combat, but executed as a prisoner. I've checked the newswires, and have yet to see the press release from Ramsey Clark about the mistreatment of prisoners.

It's different. See, if you are Ramsey Clark or any of the other nitwit leftist creeps, its okay to kill an American prisoner by shooting him in the head. That's entirely better than depriving an Al Qaeda of a GOOD toasting of his Frosted Strawberry Pop Tart -- why, that is BARBARISM!!!

[rbmillerjr]

Listening to to Rummy Live at Pentagon Briefing,,,,,,,,he says, "it is not known when the bullet killed the SEAL" and that he "could have been shot in the helicopter" They dont know.

Just some breaking FYI

[Brookhaven]

No, we refuse to call them prisoners of war because, under the Geneva Convention, they do not qualify as such:

I understand the technical arguments, but I was talking about being practical. You're not going to get far with a group by saying: "You have to treat our guys as POWs, but we don't have to treat your guys the same way."

[Leesylvanian]

Unfortunately, I don't think the military really expects civil treatment for any of our guys who may be captured. It goes with the territory. That's why I favor Daisy Cutters, 24/7.

[DWSUWF]

"...Da$$hole is a piece of ****..."

There you go, generous to a fault, passing out unearned compliments like candy.

Dasshole doesn't rate sh!t status.

Sh!t has several legitimate uses...

Dasshole the traitor has none.

[Polybius]

I understand the technical arguments, but I was talking about being practical. You're not going to get far with a group by saying: "You have to treat our guys as POWs, but we don't have to treat your guys the same way."

These are the people who slit the throats of airline stewardasses with box cutters and then flew airliners filled with men women and children into skyscrapers filled with thousands of civilians.

You are not going to get anywhere with them no matter what you do short of killing them.

I would not expect a rabid dog not to bite if given the chance. Likewise, I do not expect Al Qaeda to refrain from killing an "American infidel" whenever they have the chance.

[RightWhale]

I doubt he was killed by a bullet

The body has been recovered. Dead of a bullet wound.