Posted on 03/04/2002 11:14:46 PM PST by kattracks
WASHINGTON, Mar 05, 2002 (AP Online via COMTEX) -- Microsoft Corp.'s chief executive and the top executive involved with its Windows operating system are sticking with a position the company has held since the outset of the four-year antitrust case: They cannot pull the Internet Explorer Web browser out of Windows.
Nine states suing Microsoft for antitrust violations want to force the company to offer a version of Windows without the browser and other added features.
That would allow computer makers to install competitors' products, if they chose, without taking on the added cost of supporting both products. Currently, Microsoft's ubiquitous Windows has a leg up on competitors vying for the hearts of consumers and software designers.
In a videotaped deposition released Monday, Microsoft vice president and Windows chief Jim Allchin said Microsoft has "no way" to remove the browser from the company's flagship operating system.
"I couldn't do what you've got here," said Allchin, suffering from a severe cold. "Forget about any business thing. Technically I just couldn't do it."
Allchin said the company has done no studies to see if it could be done.
He referred to an especially embarrassing part of Microsoft's case, in which the company showed a videotape to make the argument that Windows would be damaged if a user attempted to remove the Internet Explorer Web browser. Microsoft later admitted the demonstration computer was rigged.
"Do you have any expectation as to whether or not you will be putting together a similar demonstration for this part of the case?" state lawyers asked.
"Not exactly like that one," Allchin said.
Steve Ballmer, a college friend of company founder Bill Gates and current chief executive officer, said Microsoft would be forced to offer an infinite number of Windows versions under the states' demands, all with or without extra features.
Ballmer said if the states should prevail with their demands, the decision would serve the interests of neither computer manufacturers nor users.
Instead, Ballmer said companies like Sun Microsystems, whose relationship with Microsoft is notoriously prickly, would dedicate themselves to frustrating Microsoft engineers.
"Sun Microsystems (can) go buy 10,000 copies, and they can have people just sit there and generate work requests to us every minute of every day," Ballmer said. "Somebody could say, 'Look, I want to make Microsoft's life miserable; so I'll tell you what, I'll pay you $10 million a year to torture Microsoft."'
The nine states revised their proposed penalties Monday. The new version reflects many complaints leveled by Ballmer and other executives.
For example, Microsoft would have to offer only one stripped-down version of Windows instead of many different ones.
Ballmer complained that it would be too expensive to build a version of the Java programming language to package with Windows, as requested by the states. The states clarified that Microsoft wouldn't have to bear those costs.
Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal said the modifications "clarify and sharpen our proposed remedies, without weakening them."
"The modified measures should deflate Microsoft's overblown rhetoric and apocalyptic predictions about the proposed remedies," Blumenthal said.
Brad Smith, Microsoft's general counsel, would not comment on the changes.
"It appears to be a number of changes made very late," Smith said. The company is still reviewing the document, he said.
Allchin admitted to lawyers for the states that Microsoft violated the law but refused to specify the violations.
"I don't think that I can summarize those," Allchin said. "I'm not an attorney."
The company faces several allegations of violations that involve infringing on consumer choice and unfairly hurting competitors.
The states' lawyers, Stephen Houck and Mark Breckler, asked if it would be important for the head Windows executive to know what the violations were, so they wouldn't be repeated.
"Well, it's a very complicated area," Allchin said. "Very complicated,"
---
On the Net: Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com
Connecticut Attorney General: http://www.cslib.org/attygenl/
By D. IAN HOPPER AP Technology Writer
Copyright 2002 Associated Press, All rights reserved
Sure, whatever. Hell, someone can take "Hello World!" and edit into an ICBM guidance control system. But I think most normal, reasonable people would not consider that a "modification of a program".
By the same token, it is utter nonsense to suggest that Windows can be disemboweled and made into something it's not. Do you grasp the "stuff" that's at various times been called OLE2, ActiveX, COM, and so forth? Do you understand that various components have various dependencies, and that to attempt to "surgically" rebuild the OS to some court's spec would result in a nightmare beyond comprehension -- and, a product no one would want? All at a cost no one would pay?
Um, do you mind if I ask what you're smoking? So far, all of your responses have been off the cuff one-liners that bear no logical connection to the posts you're replying too. The kindest thing I can say is that it sounds like you're cracking open fortune cookies and posting their contents by clicking "reply" on the first message that catches your eye.
Exactly what point are you trying to make?
Strange, I had no problem at all believing you did it.
Correct, it is a choice made by the manufacturers. No one held a gun to their head and demanded that they get the ultra-low-price -- but restricted -- licenses. They could just as easily paid the regular price for an unrestricted license.
It's like someone renting a car with a limit of yay many miles per day at so many dollars per day "bundle", and then suing them because the company forbids them to take it on a six month vacation with unlimited miles at that price.
"Hate" is your word, sir.
It drips from your replies.
Oh, please, spare me the Eddie Haskalesque cloyingly solicitous "I simply asked a question", and "Sir" crap, OK?
And while you're at it, take the rest of your contemptuous twaddle and sell it to someone who cares.
This is not true I DO NOT have Office OR IE on my computer, I use either Wordpad or WordPerfect to view .doc files.
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Boo hoo. I have Netscape installed on my XP system, along with IE 6.
I use IE. So what?
Users can--and do--install numerous browsers that aren't MS. For example, Opera.
It's sort of like a car that comes with a built-in stereo. You can always add aftermarket equipment if that floats yer boat.
And the whine about having to support both products is bogus. All the OEMs need is a simple statement specifying which elements they are responsible for, and which need support by Microsoft.
--Boris
Thanks--
--Boris
Well you need to go out to your local Kenworth Dealer they sell Trucks all the time without engines and transmissions. It's called a "Glider Kit' it is basically a Cab and Chassic. If you have a KW with a good Motor and Trans you can a Brand New Cab and Chassic to put your good motor and trans in.
Oh and by the way can order a Brand New KW with either a Caterpiller, Cummins or Detroit Diesel.
Next time you need to check your facts better.
Put your money where your mouth is Download 98lite and try it. My Computer runs just fine without IE, and Windows Explorer runs MUCH faster with the Win95 files installed.
Wow, yes, evidently I must! I never realized that Kenworth sold racecars. Fool that I am, I thought they sold semi trucks.
I learn something new every day.
At last a sensible answer. The only reason MS has its market share in because they had extroadinarily low prices. The prices don't look low on the retail shelf, but the big OEMs got Windows and Office for about 10 percent of retail.
In exchange for promoting MS software.
Now a kinder/gentler MS would have backed off a bit after getting an overwhelming market share, but there aren't many corporations that survive more than a few years on kindness. Not even Ben and Jerry's.
I have never said that removing IE would be easy. My 25 years of programming experience (which you so casually dismissed since it suited your purpose) has shown me that it would probably be a painful experience to do so. But, it could be done.
My problem with Microsoft's statement that it can't be done is this: I have never heard them say that the re-programming effort would be too great, or too expensive. That led me to believe that they simply don't want to. For that reason, I believe their statement to be disingenuous.
Okay, I've had my say. Flame away. Your flames won't be returned, as I don't need them to make my point.
Don't give up.
Your methods will work eventually.
Everyone will soon be on your side.
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