Journal of Trauma: More U.S. Children Die Where Guns Are Common-Study

yahoo.com ^ | Feb 28, 2002 7:04 PM ET | Christopher Noble

[TwakeIDFins]

At no time are we told about per capita juvenile death rates.

I believe you're in error here. In the seventh paragraph, it clearly states, "The two groups of states had almost the same number of children..."
And, therefore, actual differences do represent per capita differences.

Re. your other questions: Yahoo's news service only summarized the paper. Your questions are good ones, and they should be looked into. You're assuming, however, that they were not addressed in the study. You can only legitimately criticize the study by going to the source, and determining whether or not the factors you mention were or were not addressed.

[jaq]

Two days ago in Detroit, Michigan, four children (ages were about 7-8 and younger) were shot. Three lived, one died. The perps shot into a car in which the four were seated. There has never been a shortage of guns in Detroit, even though Michigan just passed a concealed-weapons law last summer.
This is just one case that reinforces your point.

[Consort]

Got a chart on the number of deaths caused by Liberalism vs Conservatism?

[Khepera]

What a maroon!

[TwakeIDFins]

I find it most interesting that they chose to limit the children's ages. In most "guns kill children" studies, the "children's" ages range up to 19. I imagine this "significant" difference in child mortality disappears quite rapidly around 16. ;)

They addressed that question. Quote:
"While other studies have shown links between teen suicide and guns, this is the first national study to examine the connection between firearm ownership and violent death among younger children..."
It's clear that they limited the dataset to 14-and-under, precisely because that dataset had not been adequately covered before. And apparently (though we'd have to look up their supporting references to be sure), the difference in child mortality does not disappear at the magic age of 16, at least for cases of teen suicide

Given control of a dataset, you can prove anything. Statistics is so much fun!

Ummmm...a researcher must control the dataset, if he/she's going to prove anything. If the dataset has no controls, no parameters, then by definition, there's no way for it to have any meaning!

[Khepera]

Homosexuals are children and need to be disciplined until they assume their proper role as adults. We owe it to children to assist in their growth into adulthood. Until they stop acting like juveniles they belong in detention. We need to stop enabling these perverts and force them to grow up into healthy productive members of society. Until we start being adults ourselves and assume our proper rolls as leaders we cannot expect our children to grow up and assume responsibility. We must stop enabling these perverts in their illicit activities or we will find ourselves in a nation of child molesters. All homosexuals are guilty of statutory child molestation as long as we allow them to spread their filthy perverted lifestyles and views in our schools and on TV. Each and every one of the Sodomites are guilty and unless we speak up then we are guilty too. Join us as Straight Americans Speaking Up (SASU). Help us to build a coalition of responsible adults who are willing to stand up and lead these errant children into adulthood!

[TwakeIDFins]

Your statistics are very compelling. The general point is clearly supported, but some of the calculations might be slightly in error.

Children 14 and under are over 21 times more likely to die in an automobile, and nearly 8 times more likely to drown than die in an accident with a gun.

3059/181 = (roughly) 17, not 21.
1060/181 = (roughly) 6, not 8.

[Semper Paratus]

This "Study" will be mentioned all day on MSNBC CNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN.

[KirkandBurke]

More children die from choking on food, than from guns. BAN LUNCH!!!

[AAABEST]

3059/181 = (roughly) 17, not 21. 1060/181 = (roughly) 6, not 8.

Re-read the post. The chart and the data culled from the paragraph you corrected were from different years.

[wwjdn]

The study, published in The Journal of Trauma, is significant because it shows that the mere presence of firearms leads to more violent death among children aged 5-14, said Dr. Matthew Miller, the lead author.

This study is a crock of bull dung!!! Guns were readily available when I was young, there were no gun safes, there were no restrictive gun laws! Yet the number of children killd by guns was very, very rare... Now suddenly, we are severly restricting guns and now children are being killed because they can get to them???

This is another bogus study by LIBERALS to get CONTROL of our guns... so they can control us completely!

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Bump!

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Bump!

[Cincinatus' Wife]

This "Study" will be mentioned all day on MSNBC CNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN.

Bump!

[lavaroise]

?? It worked when I used it before and now it does not obviously. But here goes nothing: The Matrix

[Blood of Tyrants]

While other studies have shown links between teen suicide and guns,

Duh! A teen shoots himself in the head and they need a "study" to determine a link between the suicide and the instrument of choice? We are obviously dealing with a higher form of intelligence here.

[Blood of Tyrants]

The study looked at data from all 50 states from 1988 to 1997. In that period, 6,817 children between 5 and 14 years old died from firearms: 3,447 from homicides, 1,782 from accidental shootings and 1,588 from suicide.

Their huge epidemic of "child gun deaths" is about 13-14 children per year per state. Hardly an accurate "statistic". Way over half of which were murders (most by a parent, I would guess).

[Blood of Tyrants]

The number averages out to 13-14 children per state per year.