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To: Ward Smythe;ShadowAce
How did you come to repentance? There are two steps in salvation..the first is repentance.....I argue that man can not seek God without grace.I further argue that Gods grace draws us to repentance .

If we "repent" on our own..with out God's grace it is not true repentance.

I will say one more time..that the same grace that God saves us with He saves infants with. He is the author and finisher of our faith. God initiates our salvation, He is sovereign in all matters.

So how does a baby go through the 4 spiritual laws? How does a baby save himself?

951 posted on 03/01/2002 11:11:45 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7; ShadowAce; the_doc
There are two steps in salvation..the first is repentance.....I argue that man can not seek God without grace.I further argue that Gods grace draws us to repentance .

Mom, I think we established the grace issue back in #945. Please don't make me shout again, I have to sing Sunday.

When you say the first step is repentance I think you would be in conflict with "the_doc's" read on 1 Corinthians 2:14 which he tells me proves the Calvinist position that we have to be born again (regenerated) before repentance, and proves the entire argument for predestination in the Calvinist view.

That's a little unfair because doc is out of commission this week. But I believe I am fairly stating his position on that verse.

You ask: So how does a baby go through the 4 spiritual laws?

Which is exactly the question ShadowAce asked of you way back.

956 posted on 03/01/2002 11:20:11 AM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: RnMomof7
How does a baby save himself?

That's exactly my point, Mom. The baby doesn't. He has no need, since he has no sin to be saved from. That is my position.

Your position (as I see it) is that all babies are automatically guilty of sin that should cause them to be thrown into hell. You also state that God steps in and saves all infants who die in infancy so they go to heaven--without any repentance or realization of sin on the part of the baby.

Since God can step in with all infants and save them--through no action of their own--why does He only choose some adults to save? What does man lose when he reaches the age of culpability?

957 posted on 03/01/2002 11:20:17 AM PST by ShadowAce
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