[Ward Smythe]

It is sooo much easier to dismiss us once you put us in our proper cubby-holes, isn't it?

Oh come on Jerry. He's clearly asking you to offer your own definitions. Either you stand by them or you don't. No one's forcing you into a cubby-hole.

See, you even have that choice.

[Jerry_M]

What you don't seem to recognize is the fact that we offered a one sentence, succinct, definition of "T". We thought that this would foster understanding discussion, and that is why we asked for either agreement, or a succinct disagreement.

All that we received was "I don't agree" PERIOD! No reasons as to why he disagrees, no discussion as to what he sees as the weakness of our position, no Biblical quoatations refuting our position. NOTHING, NADA, ZIP, ZERO.

Now, why bother with the remaining four points if this is all we are going to get? He can post whatever he thinks we believe, but we are not going forward until we deal with the basic issue of the condition of man. How can we have a discussion on the means of salvation if we can't agree from what man must be saved?

[xzins]

your #428. I always said that I intended to use the definitions once I had them because we had constant accusations that we were not properly understanding calvinism's points. In fact, that's one of the very first criticisms of the basic post of this thread....Wesley doesn't truly understand us.

Why else would I want condensed definitions than to use them. Why else would I say it time and again?

Jerry, I can't tell if your "aha" is melodrama or true surprise. I suspect the former.

Now, I'm gonna use these and I'm going to use your link as a referral to demonstrate that the condensations are valid. I'm sure that in ongoing discussions you will get around to refining them.

Why not just do it now?

I'm going to have to leave until this evening. Have to go pick up some SS material at the mall about an hour from here. Later, and have fun.

[fortheDeclaration]

Oh come on Jerry. He's clearly asking you to offer your own definitions. Either you stand by them or you don't. No one's forcing you into a cubby-hole.

These were the same hypocrites that were demanding that I give my belief's! Which I did, by the way. Where are the Calvinists statements on what they believe?