Not Calvinism but Hyper-Calvinism!
6. If you believe Pharaoh, or any one man upon earth, was created for this end, -- to be damned, -- you hold all that has been said of predestination.
Not Calvinism but Hyper-Calvinism!
10. But if this be so, then is all preaching vain. It is needless to them that are elected; for they, whether with preaching or without, will infallibly be saved. Therefore, the end of preaching -- to save should -- is void with regard to them; and it is useless to them that are not elected, for they cannot possibly be saved: They, whether with preaching or without, will infallibly be damned. The end of preaching is therefore void with regard to them likewise; so that in either case our preaching is vain, as you hearing is also vain.
So, Wesley really has no clue what Calvinist really believe. He keeps smashing his head against Hyper-Calvinism.
11. This then, is a plain proof that the doctrine of predestination is not a doctrine of God, because it makes void the ordinance of God; and God is not divided against himself.
Wesley really choked pretty hard on all of this.
17. Again: How uncomfortable a thought is this, that thousands and millions of men, without any preceding offense or fault of theirs, were unchangeably doomed to everlasting burnings!
Wesley seems bent on nothing more than tearing down his opponent through misrepresentation. He really seemed blinded by his zeal to tear apart Calvinism that he never realized that he wasn't even arguing against Calvinism. The only thing which doesn't make the above statement Pelagain heresy is the word preceding.
He gave himself a ransom for all;" (1 Tim. 2:6;)
BTW, in his zeal, he never stopped to consider that if this truly is all in this passage that 1 Tim 2 is teaching that we should pray for the very overthrow of THE PROPHECIES OF GOD!
Thou fool, why dost thou roar about any longer? Thy lying in wait for souls is as needless and useless as our preaching. Hearest thou not, that God hath taken thy work out of thy hands; and that he doeth it much more effectually?
Do you suppose that Wesley ever stopped to consider that Satan only has a much power as it pleases God for him to have?
How can you say that Woody? Seriously.
Would you say that God is the creator of all? I believe you would.
Would you say that God knew his elect from the foundations of the world? I believe you would.
Would you say that God knew the non-elect from the foundations of the world? I believe you would.
Would you say that only the elect can come to God? I believe you would.
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of those points. If I am I apologize. But tell me where you would disagree. We don't need attitudes (from either of us) and let's not get tangled up in semantics. But aren't those statements factual?
Because if they are, they can mean nothing else but that God created some individuals for the sole purpose of condemning them to eternal torment.
In simple terms, help me see how it could mean anything else.