Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Jerry_M
If anything, we could all learn a thing or two about how to conduct ourselves in these doctrinal discussions from the tone and nature of Whitfield's response.

We certainly could Jerry. But while I've pointed out that everything I've read indicates that Whitefield and Wesley came to a peaceful resolve, if not agreement, you're the one to suggest Wesley was hypocritical in his gracious remarks at Whitefield's funeral. (Post #15).

Is that the tone we're setting? My guess is that Mr. Whitefield and Mr. Wesley would hope not.

33 posted on 02/26/2002 11:00:35 AM PST by Ward Smythe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies ]


To: Ward Smythe
I will do a little bit more research, but other than the link you provided I have never seen anything suggesting that the enmity between Wesley and Whitfield was effectively dealt with prior to Whitfield's death. I remember reading somewhere that contemporaries of the period of Whitfield's funeral felt that Wesley was attempting to gloss over his differences at the funeral, and that his comments were seen, at that time, to be somewhat hypocritical.

I would hope that you are correct, but not certain that the link you provided had the correct info. on this topic.

34 posted on 02/26/2002 11:06:00 AM PST by Jerry_M
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies ]

To: Ward Smythe
Jerry, you're the one to suggest Wesley was hypocritical in his gracious remarks at Whitefield's funeral. (Post #15).

Since Jerry insists on mentioning my name and SATANIC influence in the same breath, and Since we're discussing the lives of these early Christians, the readers must be aware of the following:

The entire report is found at: His Ashes Cry Out Against John Calvin

You are about to read an important part of church history from the Reformation period that has been so concealed in our day that very few people know the facts. Brace yourself for a shock.

On October 27, 1553 John Calvin, the founder of Calvinism, had Michael Servetus, the Spanish physician, burned at the stake just outside of Geneva for his doctrinal heresies!(1) Hence, the originator of the popular doctrine of "once saved, always saved" (known in certain circles as "the perseverance of the saints") violated the cry of the Reformation -- "Sola Scriptura" -- by murdering a doctrinal heretic without Scriptural justification. This event was something Calvin had considered long before Servetus was even captured, for Calvin wrote his friend, Farel, on February 13, 1546 (seven years prior to Servetus' arrest) and went on record as saying:

"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight."(2)

Evidently, in that day Calvin's authority in Geneva, Switzerland had ultimate "weight." This is why some referred to Geneva as the "Rome of Protestantism"(3) and to Calvin as the "Protestant 'Pope' of Geneva."(4)

During Servetus' trial, Calvin wrote:

"I hope that the verdict will call for the death penalty."(5)

Let it be noted that the Calvinists of Geneva put half-green wood around the feet of Servetus and a wreath strewn with sulfur on his head. It took over thirty minutes to render him lifeless in such a fire, while the people of Geneva stood around to watch him suffer and slowly die! Just before this happened, the record shows:

"Farel walked beside the condemned man, and kept up a constant barrage of words, in complete insensitivity to what Servetus might be feeling. All he had in mind was to extort from the prisoner an acknowledgement [sic] of his theological error -- a shocking example of the soulless cure of souls. After some minutes of this, Servetus ceased making any reply and prayed quietly to himself. When they arrived at the place of execution, Farel announced to the watching crowd: 'Here you see what power Satan possesses when he has a man in his power. This man is a scholar of distinction, and he perhaps believed he was acting rightly. But now Satan possesses him completely, as he might possess you, should you fall into his traps.'

When the executioner began his work, Servetus whispered with trembling voice: 'Oh God, Oh God!' The thwarted Farel snapped at him: 'Have you nothing else to say?' This time Servetus replied to him: 'What else might I do, but speak of God!' Thereupon he was lifted onto the pyre and chained to the stake. A wreath strewn with sulfur was placed on his head. When the faggots were ignited, a piercing cry of horror broke from him. 'Mercy, mercy!' he cried. For more than half an hour the horrible agony continued, for the pyre had been made of half-green wood, which burned slowly. 'Jesus, Son of the eternal God, have mercy on me,' the tormented man cried from the midst of the flames ...."(11)

The remainder of this horrible affair, and the footnotes, are at the weblink posted above. Let it be noted that Servetus didn't hold a correct doctrine of the trinity.

Also, one additional note:

"Two other famous episodes concerned Jacques Gruet and Jerome Bolsec. Gruet, whom Calvin considered a Libertine, had written letters critical of the Consistory and, more serious, petitioned the Catholic king of France to intervene in the political and religious affairs of Geneva. With Calvin's concurrence he was beheaded for treason.

Bolsec publicly challenged Calvin's teaching on predestination, a doctrine Bolsec, with many others, found morally repugnant. Banished from the city in 1551, he revenged himself in 1577 by publishing a biography of Calvin that charged him with greed, financial misconduct, and sexual aberration."(18)

52 posted on 02/26/2002 12:35:38 PM PST by xzins
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson