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To: Ward Smythe
Jerry, you're the one to suggest Wesley was hypocritical in his gracious remarks at Whitefield's funeral. (Post #15).

Since Jerry insists on mentioning my name and SATANIC influence in the same breath, and Since we're discussing the lives of these early Christians, the readers must be aware of the following:

The entire report is found at: His Ashes Cry Out Against John Calvin

You are about to read an important part of church history from the Reformation period that has been so concealed in our day that very few people know the facts. Brace yourself for a shock.

On October 27, 1553 John Calvin, the founder of Calvinism, had Michael Servetus, the Spanish physician, burned at the stake just outside of Geneva for his doctrinal heresies!(1) Hence, the originator of the popular doctrine of "once saved, always saved" (known in certain circles as "the perseverance of the saints") violated the cry of the Reformation -- "Sola Scriptura" -- by murdering a doctrinal heretic without Scriptural justification. This event was something Calvin had considered long before Servetus was even captured, for Calvin wrote his friend, Farel, on February 13, 1546 (seven years prior to Servetus' arrest) and went on record as saying:

"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight."(2)

Evidently, in that day Calvin's authority in Geneva, Switzerland had ultimate "weight." This is why some referred to Geneva as the "Rome of Protestantism"(3) and to Calvin as the "Protestant 'Pope' of Geneva."(4)

During Servetus' trial, Calvin wrote:

"I hope that the verdict will call for the death penalty."(5)

Let it be noted that the Calvinists of Geneva put half-green wood around the feet of Servetus and a wreath strewn with sulfur on his head. It took over thirty minutes to render him lifeless in such a fire, while the people of Geneva stood around to watch him suffer and slowly die! Just before this happened, the record shows:

"Farel walked beside the condemned man, and kept up a constant barrage of words, in complete insensitivity to what Servetus might be feeling. All he had in mind was to extort from the prisoner an acknowledgement [sic] of his theological error -- a shocking example of the soulless cure of souls. After some minutes of this, Servetus ceased making any reply and prayed quietly to himself. When they arrived at the place of execution, Farel announced to the watching crowd: 'Here you see what power Satan possesses when he has a man in his power. This man is a scholar of distinction, and he perhaps believed he was acting rightly. But now Satan possesses him completely, as he might possess you, should you fall into his traps.'

When the executioner began his work, Servetus whispered with trembling voice: 'Oh God, Oh God!' The thwarted Farel snapped at him: 'Have you nothing else to say?' This time Servetus replied to him: 'What else might I do, but speak of God!' Thereupon he was lifted onto the pyre and chained to the stake. A wreath strewn with sulfur was placed on his head. When the faggots were ignited, a piercing cry of horror broke from him. 'Mercy, mercy!' he cried. For more than half an hour the horrible agony continued, for the pyre had been made of half-green wood, which burned slowly. 'Jesus, Son of the eternal God, have mercy on me,' the tormented man cried from the midst of the flames ...."(11)

The remainder of this horrible affair, and the footnotes, are at the weblink posted above. Let it be noted that Servetus didn't hold a correct doctrine of the trinity.

Also, one additional note:

"Two other famous episodes concerned Jacques Gruet and Jerome Bolsec. Gruet, whom Calvin considered a Libertine, had written letters critical of the Consistory and, more serious, petitioned the Catholic king of France to intervene in the political and religious affairs of Geneva. With Calvin's concurrence he was beheaded for treason.

Bolsec publicly challenged Calvin's teaching on predestination, a doctrine Bolsec, with many others, found morally repugnant. Banished from the city in 1551, he revenged himself in 1577 by publishing a biography of Calvin that charged him with greed, financial misconduct, and sexual aberration."(18)

52 posted on 02/26/2002 12:35:38 PM PST by xzins
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To: forthedeclaration, rnmomof7, ccwoody
bump to #52
53 posted on 02/26/2002 12:36:51 PM PST by xzins
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To: xzins
RE #52: Wow.
56 posted on 02/26/2002 12:42:00 PM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: xzins
All this because someone refused to believe in God as another. Pitiful
57 posted on 02/26/2002 12:45:25 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: xzins; the_doc; OrthodoxPresbyterian; CCWoody; RnMomof7
Re. 52.

Base lies that have been refuted elsewhere. You appear to not be cognizent of several things:

1) The Roman Catholic church had already condemned Servetus as a heretic, and had ordered his execution.
2) John Calvin was not the civil authority in Geneva, and did not condemn Servetus.
3) John Calvin argued that Servetus should not suffer death by burning, but was overruled.
4) In most places, heresy was a capital offense, and the death penalty was often given in many places. If Servetus is the worst you can offer, than Calvin was certainly ahead of his times.
5) Freedom of religion had its roots in Geneva, and we owe that to Calvin. Just think how bad things would be, even today, without this influence.

Nice try, but no reward. (Do you know how bad it makes you look to dredge this stuff up as if it is some awful revelation. Think about the spirit in which you do these things. I think you will discover that it isn't one looking for unity.)

65 posted on 02/26/2002 1:24:33 PM PST by Jerry_M
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To: Jean Chauvin
This is the one I was talking about. Just follow the link.
209 posted on 02/27/2002 10:31:52 AM PST by Wrigley
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