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To: forthedeclaration
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: - Ephesians 1:11

Yep, I am nutty enough to believe it. We wonder, however, why you aren't.

298 posted on 02/27/2002 12:47:38 PM PST by Jerry_M
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To: Jerry_M, WhiteMountain,Xzins,Rnmomof7, George W.Bush,Aruanan
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: - Ephesians 1:11 Yep, I am nutty enough to believe it. We wonder, however, why you aren't.

Well, I guess you are nutty because that passage is not saying what you want it to say. Do you see the word salvation anywhere in the text? I see the word inheritance not salvation!

Moreover, 'worketh' is not forordaining. We know that 'all things work together for good' because it is God doing the working despite the resistance of His own creatures, both angelic and human (Rom.8:38-39)

As for his 'the council of His own will'all that means is that God alone made the Plan, for His pleasure (Col.1:16,Rev.4:11)

However, man can reject this 'council'

But ye have set at nought all my council, and would none of my reprove (Pro.1:25) They would none of my council: they despised all my reproof (Pro.1:30) But the Pharisees and Lawyers rejected the council of God against themselves being not baptized of him (luke 7:30)
Now, the word 'Predestinate' is used four times, Rom.8:29,30, Eph.1:5,1:11. Where is the word 'salvation' anywhere near any of them?

Eph.1:5 has 'adoption' but that happens as a result of salvation (Gal.4:5-7) Eph. 1:11 refers to an inheritance. Rom.8:29-30 being conformed to the image of His Son. These are not salvation passages but dispensational passages dealing with the status of the Church age believer.

Still, the ultimate root of your system is God's all encompassing Decree that decided everything in the past by His directive will, both good and bad, including those who would be saved and those who would not. Thus, there are no real choices made by anyone but God Himself!

Is that a fair assessement?

Why can't you believe John 3:16?

371 posted on 02/27/2002 10:47:23 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: Jerry_M
Your taking that verse out of context. Our apostle having hitherto spoken of the glorious privileges of the gospel in general, he comes now to make application of this his doctrine, first to the Jews, and next to the Gentiles in particular.

As to the Jews, who were first called by Christ and his apostles, and who were the first that trusted or hoped in Christ for salvation, before there was any considerable number of converts among the Gentiles, he declares, that these Jewish believers, whereof himself was one, had in and through Christ, obtained a right to be God's portion and a peculiar people: but together with their being God's portion, they should have a right to an inheritance. In whom we have obtained an inheritance; namely, an inheritance in the heavenly Canaan, the inheritance of the saints in light; and to this inheritance, says he, you have been appointed, God having fore-or-dained that this inheritance should be the portion of all believers, and the consequent of faith in Christ, by virtue of which we become the sons of God, and all this to the praise of his own glory; that is, to the intent that his glorious attributes of wisdom, goodness, and mercy, might be acknowledged and highly praised.

That to be called to faith, and brought to believe in Christ, before others, is a favour and special prerogative which some persons have above others. We who first believed in Christ. It is an high honour above all others, to be in Christ before others, Who were in Christ before me (see Ro 16:1)

That as all believers are God's portion, and the lot of his inheritance, so they do obtain from him right and title to a lot and share in an inheritance incorruptible, undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in the heavens for them: We have obtained an inheritance.

Furthermore, Jesus Christ the Mediator, is that person in, by, and through whom, believers are instituted to this inheritance: In whom, Christ hath purchased this inheritance for them; he hath promised it to them; he has already taken, and still keeps possession of it for them; and he will put them into the full and final possession of it at the great day.

That the great end and design of God, in all the distinguishing favours and benefits which by Jesus Christ we obtain from him, is this,That we should be to the praise of his glory.

381 posted on 02/28/2002 1:25:21 AM PST by raygun
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