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To: Askel5
But human sovereignty has always been the subjugation of natural consequences to our will. Since the first time man lit a fire because he didn't want to be cold man has been finding new and exciting ways to boss the world around. We make are so that part of us will be known after we die. We make buildings because caves aren't comfy. We have electric lights because we don't want to go to bed just because the sun has. And we have sex without risk of pregnancy. It's just a natural progression of mankind constantly expanding the boundaries of his control.

As for your self-control "example" that is so typically full of judgmental condemning BS with no actual understanding of what goes on. The majority of people using birth control are not trolling the world looking for quick bangers, those people usually aren't bright enough to use protection (if they were VD and abortions would be history since it's the trollers that are the big transmitters). The majority of people using birth control are people in long term relationships, often within the bounds of marriage, who want to have a normal sexual relationship with the person they love, but they don't want some kid screwing things up; they're happy with how their life works childless and don't feel a need to change it at the whims of random chance.

30 posted on 02/19/2002 10:47:47 AM PST by discostu
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To: discostu
Agreed absolutely on the fact that not all who use contraception are promiscuous scumbags. Many use it within the marriage to more perfectly plan their reproduction.

There is no question, however, that the advent of chemical and surgical contraception which rendered the notion of procreative sex somehow medieval has resulted in the breakdown of marriage, increase in promiscuity, reduction of woman to an object for self-gratification, the disordering of natural human relationships including that of the person to himself and -- possibly most dangerous of all --


place[d] a dangerous weapon ... in the hands of those public authorities who take no heed of moral exigencies (urgent situations).”

As we have since discovered, eugenics didn’t disappear with Nazi racial theories in 1945. Population control policies are now an accepted part of nearly every foreign aid discussion. The massive export of contraceptives, abortion and sterilization by the developed world to developing countries -- frequently as a prerequisite for aid dollars and often in direct contradiction to local moral traditions -- a thinly disguised form of population warfare and cultural re-engineering.


Why? Because the "progress" you cite in man's ability to manipulate reality is not true progress but rather a deconstruction of BOTH the sexual act AND the man's sovereignty over his own actions and a degradation of our human nature.

And we have sex without risk of pregnancy. It's just a natural progression of mankind constantly expanding the boundaries of his control.

You need to rethink who is controlling whom here and whether the divesting of sexual union from its essentially procreative aspect results in the dumbing down or strengthening of human regard for sex.

They don't call it "population control" for nothing, Discostu ... we are but long pigs suitable for culling and sterilization like any other dumb animal population.

The fact we've managed to view human life in strictly materialistic/economic terms, the fact we accept the notion it's better to be dead than unwanted and the fact that we ignore all of the evidence suggesting that our government is intensely interested conditioning us to the precepts of population control should alarm you.



We need to make population and family planning household words. We need to take the sensationalism out of this topic so that it can no longer be used by militants who have no real knowledge of the voluntary nature of the program but, rather, are using it as a political stepping stone. If family planning is anything, it is a public health matter.

Rep. George Bush, 1969


Most important is that legislation be recognized as ... a health-care service mechanism and not a population control mechanism.

Rep. George Bush, 1970





"While the agencies participating in this study have no specific recommendations to propose on abortion, the following issues are believed important and should be considered in the context of a global population strategy...Certain facts about abortion need to be appreciated:
  • "-- No country has reduced its population growth without resorting to abortion". [Page 182]
  • " -- Indeed, abortion, legal and illegal, now has become the most widespread fertility control method in use in the world today." [Page 183]
  • " -- It would be unwise to restrict abortion research for the following reasons: 1) The persistent and ubiquitous nature of abortion. 2) Widespread lack of safe abortion techniques..." [Page 185]

"Abortion is Vital to the Solution" ... a Key Point from Kissinger's NSSM-200 (1974)



Population control came to Puerto Rico in the early 1900s [...] The Neo-Malthusian program was openly eugenic--to improve, what the WASPs perceived as "inferior human stock" (principally through direct sterilizations). (11) This island served as the United States' first experimental model for "the intelligent and scientific control of population," the key element of which was the "education of the people and overcoming the prejudices of the Catholic Church." (12)

The rationale for the Neo-Malthusian campaign in Puerto Rico was candidly expressed by Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, a physician at San Juan's Presbyterian Hospital, operated under the auspices of the Rockefeller Foundation:

The Porto (Puerto) Ricans ... are beyond doubt the dirtiest, laziest, most degenerate and thievish race of men ever inhabiting this sphere .... What the island needs is not public health work but a tidal wave or something to totally exterminate the population. I have done my best to further the process of extermination by killing off eight and transplanting cancer into several more .... (13)

President Roosevelt made his contribution to the on-going dialogue concerning Puerto Rico's "population problem" by jokingly telling Charles Taussig, his advisor on Caribbean affairs:

"I guess the only solution is to use the methods which Hitler used effectively." It is all very simple and painless Roosevelt said--"you have people pass through a narrow passage and then there is the brrrr of an electrical apparatus. They stay there for twenty seconds and from then on they are sterile." (14)



Know thine enemy, discostu. The government is not here to help you by confirming as an "essential liberty" your decision to comply with their desires for your reproduction.



In 1977 Robert McNamara, as head of the World Bank, saw in population growth the "gravest issue" short of nuclear war and in a particularly prophetic statement lamented that the decisions that had led to this growth were
"not in the exclusive control of a few governments but rather in the literally hundreds of millions of individual parents who will determine the outcome."

This is not to say that population control has made no headway in Asia. Pushed incessantly by figures like the World Bank's McNamara, the idea that nations could become rich only if they moved to control their population rates became an article of faith among Western and Western- educated intellectuals in Asia-a faith backed up by aid dollars linked to the willingness of recipient countries to develop control measures. In the Philippines, for example, the U.S. Agency for International Development obtained a provision in the Marcos-era constitution granting the state authority over population levels. The Western missionary fervor once directed at Christianizing Asia has been channeled, in the second half of the twentieth century, into proselytizing for fewer Asians. -Population and the Wealth of Nations

Of course, the World Bank is not technically a US government office. But before joining the World Bank, this fellow was none other than Robert S. MacNamara, US Secretary of Defense.

31 posted on 02/19/2002 11:36:54 AM PST by Askel5
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