[rwfromkansas]

True. Again, keep in mind though that natural man will not live a life of good in any case so they would not want to chage their "elect status"....it is impossible. Only God can change people's lives and he does that to the elect.

[Senator Pardek]

True.

Thanks for answering succinctly - I always see people on these threads running around in circles trying to deal with that issue.

[Northpaw]

In your version of God's universe, there is no freedom, only tyranny. All freedom is an illusion. We are merely characters in a play, written and directed by a sadistic God. You could rewrite John 3:16 to read: "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so that whoever God determines to believe in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life".