1. In using the Bible to support your beliefs you have to use logical arguments such as "The Bible says A therefore B must follow." However, when someone else makes a logical argument that doesn't involve a quote from the Bible, you ridicule him and tell him to go back to his Bible.
My question to you, is why use logic at all? Why not just show the Bible quotes if logic is in and of itself invalid in such discussions? Also if I find a Bible quote that says something to the effect "If you do A then B will follow" doesn't this suggest that logic in and of itself is a good thing?
2. Just because we have finite minds, doesn't mean we can't have any concept of the infinite. In fact we have many concepts of the infinite. We even know about different sorts of infinity (e.g. countably infinite, uncountably infinite, etc.) Just because we can't now, nor maybe ever, fully comprehend the mind of God, doesn't mean we shouldn't always strive to know him better. Some of this striving can be through greater understanding of the Bible, but some of this striving can also be through theological and philosophical speculation. At least that's what Calvin in part tried to do.
3. Calvinists seem to claim that we fools don't get it because we don't understand how a loving God could predestine us to Hell. Maybe it is the Calvinists that don't understand how an all-knowing God could create a universe with enough wiggle room to allow us free will. If you claim that we cannot know the ways of God, then how do you know in which ways we don't understand the ways of God? How are you sure that our lack of understanding is foolishness and your lack of understanding is humility when it could just as easily be vice-versa?
4. From a purely philosophical point of view it might be the case that regardless of whether or not there is a God, we are still predestined. Boris has put forth one argument regarding causality. I have heard another argument that goes something like this: If there is a knowable future, then we are predestined, i.e. if we can travel into the future to a single specific time without branching off into a parallel universe, then we are predestined. Again, if you guys are so keen on predestination, and there are valid philosophical arguments that buttress you beliefs without need for Bible quotes, then why aren't you all over them? Maybe you can get one of the evil atheists or mushy agnostics on this thread to eventually move your way by first getting them to believe in predestination and then later accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior?
5. Your comments, as almost all Calvinists comments on threads such as these, express none of the intelligence or love of the God you claim to speak for. I often wonder why there are so many Calvinists on a website called FreeRepublic. If you are right and most of us are predestined to be continuously burnt and digested by maggots for eternity in a pitch black, stench-filled Hell, then I suppose your childish taunts and vague attempts at logic and reasoning are meant as an annoying poke in the eye from God before he flicks us with his middle finger into our just rewards!
May the peace and love of our Lord Jesus Christ be with the Elect.
May the rest of us be blessed with at least a few good steaks, scotches, and friends before becoming quick-fried maggot food.
Since you think that we deny free will, perhaps you would mind doing 2 simple things:
1. Define Biblical Predestination &
2. define free will.
Perhaps, you just don't understand what we believe and so you do 3000 word essays just to show us that you really don't.
However, I am a Christian. I am interested in what God has to say and using logic to UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURE....NOT REPLACE IT.
As for logic vs the Bible, to the non-believer logic trumps the Bible. The believer uses logic but starts from an assumption that the Bible contains the Word of God and thus limits logic: Reason is subservient to Divine Revelation. The non-believer does not accept that premise. The argument will quickly devolve into a debate about the authority of Scripture.
Yes, these posts quickly become polemics and opportunities to hurl contumelies. The very first response the original poster received was someone telling him that his God was a demon. I agree that we should keep our dialogue respectful, but that goes both ways. Deliberate misrepresentations of each other's positions does not add to the debate.
As for why Calvinists hang out at freerepublic.com, my guess is that it's because there is a long tradition of industrious free enterprise among Calvinists. The term 'Puritan work ethic' is sometimes used to describe this correlation.
Well, see, right there is the crux of some issue or other. We don't have finite minds. Minds are infinite. I'll just say that.
On another thread today we learn there may well be another dimension besides the three of space and one of time. Another dimension that we are just beginning to be aware of, and it may be detectable in the lab using ordinary physics techniques. The extra dimension is quite a bit larger in appearance than clusters of synapses, and it is possible synapses are operating in the new dimension and that all our minds are linked.
This is my leap: All our minds are one through this new dimension, --which is neither timelike nor spacelike,-- and it is the mind of God, but we are not aware of this due to our animal bodies and our world distracting us.