I hope this is formatted decently. I know some of the long passages have a lot of space between them, but I just did a quick save in HTML format from Microsoft Word of this. It was so long there is no way in heck I would do this by hand. I am posting this in reply to a post about why someone does not believe predestination.
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To: rwfromkansas
We have no choice but to believe in free will.
-ccm
2 posted on
02/18/2002 9:02:50 PM PST by
ccmay
To: rwfromkansas
Your God is a demon if he does this.
-ccm
3 posted on
02/18/2002 9:04:02 PM PST by
ccmay
To: rwfromkansas
and I hope it has made you think. I will spare you the details of what I think about your ramblings.
6 posted on
02/18/2002 9:07:37 PM PST by
cinFLA
To: rwfromkansas
I believe in destiny. But that destiny can only be achieved through skill, fortitude, and luck. Just one chance at greatness is more that any man could ask for. A man's life is the seeking and finding of his fortune.
13 posted on
02/18/2002 10:17:15 PM PST by
Darheel
To: rwfromkansas
I will merely say that I did no read your entire article. I would like to submit this though. If we submit to the will of God, he will show us the path he has laid out for us. I doubt that after banishing a third of his angels he would pre-destine we mortals to an eternity of pain and suffering (Call it lessons learned I guess?). I think it is we who exercise our choice that drive the splint between the Lord and ourselves. The end result is anyone's guess, save one (Three?)
To: rwfromkansas
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. If what you say is true, this scripture must mean ALL will come to repentance. (Bin Laden? Hitler?)
There are scriptures which "prove" both free will and predestination. The problem is that they are both true. We just don't have the capacity to understand how that can be.
"Free will" APPEARS to violate the concept of God's sovereignty. That bothers Presbyterians (et al). "Predestination" APPEARS to violate the concept of God's justice. That REALLY bothers most everybody else, as the replys are telling you. In fact, God is both Sovereign and Just and there is no contradiction.
If we can't understand it, that's nothing strange. Quantum mechanics is full of odd, non-intuitive, even contradictory (to us) concepts. We can't even comprehend (or picture) the basic structure of our universe. Our universe "curves in on itself," whatever that means. It is unrealistic to expect tidy, humanly understandable concepts in any explanation of God and his attributes.
To: rwfromkansas
I noticed you left out John 3:16 from your Scripture examples..why is that ?
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
whosoever \'hu-se-"we-ver\ pronoun (13c) : whoever
(C)1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All rights reserved.
John 3:16 in the Bible is spoken by Jesus Christ. Who would better know the Mind of God than His Son ?
I could post other Scripture about Salvation being available to everyone, and not just some.
If you are not Born Again, God sent His Son to die for you as well. There is room at the Cross for you.
To: rwfromkansas
bump
To: rwfromkansas
Predestination and free will; creation and evolution; destiny and karma, etc. and etc. Everything that can possibly happen has happened. It all exists in the timeless Now.
As far as predestination and free will are concerned, we use free will to decide which predetermined events we want to experience in any given lifetime.
19 posted on
02/19/2002 4:06:53 AM PST by
Consort
To: rwfromkansas
Free will is seeing truth, choosing truth is being free.
To: rwfromkansas
Would it be accurate to say that you do not believe that Jesus is the Savior of all men?
To: rwfromkansas
I have a big list like that too. John 6:44 is even tattooed to my arm.
To: rwfromkansas
What a cruel God you worship. I'm glad mine isn't so evil.
To: rwfromkansas
I have two serious questions.
If you are predestined to go to heaven, what requires you to be good, or moral?
If I am predestined to go to hell, then what requires me to be good, or moral?
To: rwfromkansas
The Bible teaches both the predestination and the free will of man. It's hard to comprehend with our limited minds (kind of like the Trinity), but it's there. I wish I had time before I left work to demonstrate this with supporting verses, but I will try to do so later this evening.
40 posted on
02/19/2002 1:14:16 PM PST by
AsYouAre
To: rwfromkansas
You have free will. Everyone and Everything does.
What you don't have is a choice in what circumstances confront you!
But you are free to make whatever decision about those circumstances your little heart desires.
41 posted on
02/19/2002 1:16:53 PM PST by
UCANSEE2
To: rwfromkansas
Why I Believe Predestination Because ... you were predestined too?
44 posted on
02/19/2002 1:31:37 PM PST by
Junior
To: rwfromkansas
Excellent. Good work, my friend. It must have been on your heart to submit work such as this to all of us. Again, good work, and thanks.
45 posted on
02/19/2002 1:35:50 PM PST by
rdb3
To: rwfromkansas
bump for later.
[I was not predestined to bump this.]
To: rwfromkansas
>>...I hope it has made you think...<<
It has. Thank you.
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