Posted on 02/18/2002 8:54:15 PM PST by rwfromkansas
Does the gospel make you change your heart against your own will?
Post 8, among others, where rwfromkansas says "You dang free willers need to actually use your brain and read your Bible." He makes repeated postings refuting any contribution of free will.
Now, if you wish to refute his interpretation of predestination, allow me to get out of your way.
That certainly is a free will choice!
You seem to have a hard time hearing us..so I will say it again.Man has a free will
One more time,with feeling :>)
Man has a free will
Man will do exactly what he wants to do..
The question before us is....
What forms his will and his wants?
If a man wants to kill 500 people, and really wants to bad enough, he will kill 500 people or die in the process. The hijackers of Flight 93 really wanted to kill lots and lots of people, and died trying. Thank God that there were those on board who loved their fellow man enough that they gave up their own lives in an attempt to stop those who wanted to commit mass murder.
God doesn't lie, and He doesn't want to either. Do you really think that God sits around and says "Boy, I wish I wasn't God, then I could lie"??
God is free to do exactly what He wants to do.
Men are free to do exactly what they want to do.
The difference between God and man, as you have tried to demonstrate, is that God always accomplishes everything He wants to do. Man is often hindered in accomplishing his desires, but that doesn't mean that he isn't free to want or desire that which he cannot attain.
Isn't it wonderful that God is in the business of changing "want tos"? He will not be hindered in His plan to bring salvation to His elect, and gives us new hearts to worship Him That is what I want to do, now and forever, even though it isn't what I wanted to do when I was "dead in trespasses and sins".
Please note the grace of God preceeds the call.That is irrestible grace my friend
See #228.
If you think that posting your article leads to bickering, then why post it all? It doesn't matter whether it is posted here or on a new thread if that is the case, does it?
A point rejected by the Eastern tradition since this does not incorporate the teachings of other faiths but is drawn solely from Christian teaching. Unless you had a different definition for 'syncretism.'
Isn't this a strawman? Who says the only alternative to predestination (God chooses who will be saved) is that God wants everyone to be saved but somehow cannot accomplish it?
I would argue this a different way. Your claim is essentially that God does not appear to be saving everyone, therefore (since God can accomplish what He wants) there must be something He wants more than saving everyone. And based on that something, e.g. His will, He chooses who to save.
But my claim is that the something He wants even more than to save everyone is that He wants us to have free-will so that we can choose to be saved or not. Therefore what God wants is still being accomplished.
Actually, I think threads such as these are what lead to bickering.
...then why post it all?
As an answer to those who've asked questions.
It doesn't matter whether it is posted here or on a new thread if that is the case, does it?
I don't think so since few people will read this deeply into a thread if they aren't interested but folks would be more likely to check into a fresh thread. Or that's how I see it anyway. Just an opinion and everyone's got one, you know.
Galatians 3:23-25
Before faith came, we were held in custody under law, confined for the faith that was to be revealed.
Consequently, the law was our disciplinarian for Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a discipline.
Looks like we are free from under the Law, if we have Christian faith. Make any sense?
Nope, since free will allows man to reject it. It is clearly not irresistable.
Is it not true that the Eastern tradition sees salvation as a cooperation between God and man? As such, it is a syncretistic operation involving the melding of the will of man with the grace of God.
This is a syncretism that I reject, choosing instead to proclaim that "Salvation is of the LORD". I consider that my salvation is the work of the Holy Spirit in changing me from the worthless worm that I was into a son of the King. I had no desire to please Him until such time as he changed my desire.
(I am not ready to rip the OT out of my Bible, as you implied earlier.)
"Well, people DID have free will at one time" -- From what I remember from my skim through the article, this is a reference to the will becoming enslaved to want nothing but sin. Of course, I already know that you deny that the natural man wants to only sin.
The second reference seems to be something of a mock to those who think that men are free to do that which they are unwilling to do.
Post 8, among others, where rwfromkansas says "You dang free willers need to actually use your brain and read your Bible." He makes repeated postings refuting any contribution of free will.
Yeah, more poking fun!
Perhaps if you define your belief for free will we can resolve the confusion. Here's mine: Man is free to do whatsoever man wants to do just like God is free to do whatsoever He wants to do. The unregenerate sinner wants to do nothing but sin. The regenerate saint actually has competing wants, the want to glorify God and the want to sin. The perfected saint with Christ will want to do nothing but glorify God.
Even though you don't consider yourself to be a "slave to sin", you truly are.
Pain and suffering? Sure, I have had my share, and probably more since I trusted Christ at age 16. However, I know that any pain I endure now is far less than the pain encountered by one who is separated from God for eternity and consigned to hell.
I truly pray that your words on this thread don't come back to haunt you in the most terrible way. Once again, I ask that you embrace Christ, even if it means experiencing His sufferings for a short time.
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