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A Little Secret About the Nazis (They were left-wing socialists like the modern left of today)
russp ^ | 1/2002 | Richard Poe

Posted on 02/18/2002 2:19:04 PM PST by TLBSHOW

click here to read article


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To: maturin
Great post, maturin. Where's Aubrey?
81 posted on 02/18/2002 4:42:18 PM PST by colorado tanker
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Comment #82 Removed by Moderator

Comment #83 Removed by Moderator

To: TLBSHOW, Asclepius
Great discussion of a very important subject. It's a good article, but I don't buy everything in it. Asclepius is correct that the claim that Marx's On The Jewish Question inspired the death camps does not stand up to scrutiny. I have read a fair amount of historical sources about the Nazis, and I have some trouble with this assertion of Poe's:

They encouraged pornography, illegitimacy, and abortion, and they denounced Christians as right-wing fanatics.

OK, they denounced Christians as right-wing dupes and fanatics all right, and they clashed with Christians over euthanasia (part of the Nazi agenda that leftists are pushing hard today), but I'm unaware of them "encouraging pornograhy, illegitimacy, and abortion". Can anyone enlighten me on this?

84 posted on 02/18/2002 4:54:47 PM PST by TheMole
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To: TLBSHOW, Asclepius
Great discussion of a very important subject. It's a good article, but I don't buy everything in it. Asclepius is correct that the claim that Marx's On The Jewish Question inspired the death camps does not stand up to scrutiny. I have read a fair amount of historical sources about the Nazis, and I have some trouble with this assertion of Poe's:

They encouraged pornography, illegitimacy, and abortion, and they denounced Christians as right-wing fanatics.

OK, they denounced Christians as right-wing dupes and fanatics all right, and they clashed with Christians over euthanasia (part of the Nazi agenda that leftists are pushing hard today), but I'm unaware of them "encouraging pornograhy, illegitimacy, and abortion". Can anyone enlighten me on this?

85 posted on 02/18/2002 4:55:13 PM PST by TheMole
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To: BoPepper
One may disagree with certain policies dealing with race, such as affirmative action, promoted by liberals. However, one can hardly equate affirmative action with the Final Solution.

One can, however, equate the liberal idea of justice with the Nazi court system. Even in civil cases, German courts at the time judged guilt and assigned the degree of punishment based on 1.Race 2. Class 3. Gender.

All liberals add to that mix is sexual orientation.

87 posted on 02/18/2002 5:25:40 PM PST by LarryLied
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To: LantzALot
Left and Right are an illusion.

The true living political spectrum is "command and control" on one side and anarchy on the other side.

Liberty and Freedom are just to one side of anarchy - definitely closer than most of us are comfortable with.

The struggle of control-freaks vs. those who would rule themselves is recorded throughout history.

Of course one needs a viable internal "moral code" to survive in Liberty. "Bad" people need to be ruled or...our old friend chaos arrives.

88 posted on 02/18/2002 5:34:00 PM PST by martian_22
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To: TLBSHOW
They encouraged pornography, illegitimacy, and abortion, and they denounced Christians as right-wing fanatics.

Interesting post, but you go a bit overboard. The NAZIs were less pornographic than the Weimar Republic they replaced. The NAZIs were usually nominally Christian, though their real religion was NAZIism.

89 posted on 02/18/2002 5:40:39 PM PST by Hagrid
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To: TLBSHOW
If the mainstream media won't tell the truth the newest force which is the internet conservative news sites will and when more people get logged on the more people will wake up

The principle of the First Amendment is that we are entitled to our own opinions--and to publish those opinions on our own dime. The principle of "journalistic ethics" is that journalism on the high-speed printing press is too powerful to fall into the wrong hands, that it must be not someone's opinioon but objective. Sounds woonderful--we're entitled to the truth, so it claims--but the corrolary is that we are not entitled to publish because we might be wrong.

Thus the ethic of "objectivity" is directly at odds with the First Amendment. The distinction was somewhat academic before the advent of the FCC--but the FCC exists to censor out all but the few licensed broadcasters, and in principle to censor them (in that their licenses expire and require renewal "in the public interest" as judged by the FCC. The FCC created the broadcast bands by defining them and thereby defining the receiver characteristics which would pick up broadcasts.

The Internet breaks out of the mold of few-to-many defined by the FCC's licensing relatively few, relatively high-power stations instead of many, many low-powered ones. The Internet essentially gives all aspiring publishers a level playing field, and elitists have no great advantage. Like talk radio, the Internet is well suited to conservative commentary.

91 posted on 02/18/2002 5:55:25 PM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: kstewskis
I've sworn off Corona Beer and margaritas for a while...

Do it for Lent. Not for Jimmy. He ain't worth it.
You haven't sworn off cheeseburgers have ya?

93 posted on 02/18/2002 6:09:27 PM PST by Slyfox
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To: Goldhammer
The radicals themselves are control freaks. Every means to divide and destroy American culture is utilized as a tool - including the promotion of anarchy.

Don't get me wrong. Control freaks have their uses in functioning civilizations. I would just like the frustrated, powerless types to be more abundant.

94 posted on 02/18/2002 6:22:45 PM PST by martian_22
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To: Goldhammer
Sorry, but I don't believe that. Marx wrote that passage without the knowledge of what was to come. He could have easily been in support of a violent period of despotism against the bourgeousie. But that's a far cry from saying he would have supported the mass starvations, deportations, executions, and system of paranoia and terror that resulted. What came about terrorized the people he was trying to help.

Who knows how many people died because of that very passage and others like it.

95 posted on 02/18/2002 7:49:42 PM PST by ValenB4
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To: TLBSHOW; thucydides; martian_22; A.J.Armitage; Goldhammer
A.J. Armitage (reply #73) is correct on the French Revolution origins of the right/left political axis: literally from the different sides of the isle of the assembly. Nevertheless, fascist and socialist have come to describe opposing politics, and we cannot here change this, the cries of Hayek, Vazsonyi and others, aside.

We are better off pointing to the distinctions in order to conclude upon the similarities, rather than the other way around which will be rejected off-hand. The similarities have been well described here. Some distinctions:

- Nazism/fascism maintains private property;
- Nazism/fascism is nationalism whereas socialism / communism pretends [emphasis important here] to be borderless;
- Socialism/communism is a means whereas Nazism/fascism is an end.

We unfairly discredit our detractors and get no where with them if we ignore these distinctions. Rather than saying they are one in the same, I prefer to get the left itchy on its similarities to fascism by pointing to those aspects of the modern left which are more fascist than communist. It's easy for the left to deny being communists; they're not, no matter how much they are, for they haven't the power to be. However, they have undeniably approached the fascist state: nationalism.

The nationalist wants a public/private partnership. This is best expressed in Latin American dictatorships where business is an adjunct of government, just as it was under Hitler in Nazi Germany (Mercedes-Benz was a prime example). The Americans approached this earlier, in fact, during the progressive era, when Teddy Roosevelt's "New Nationalism" had the country headed towards a government-business partnership that would have yielded permanent monopoly status to the likes of Standard Oil and U.S. Steel.

Socialism/communism wanted the same thing but with public ownership. The progressives/nazis/nationalists allowed for private ownership, but under government guidance. We are far closer to nationalism than communism.

96 posted on 02/18/2002 7:58:04 PM PST by nicollo
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To: DallasDeb
correction; the extreme right is -- ananchy!
that means - no government! -no capitalism! - no control!
98 posted on 02/18/2002 8:26:21 PM PST by jwatz
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To: Asclepius
You obviously have not read Marx's essay. Karl Marx completely bought into the stereotype of the greedy, heartless Jew money-lender -- the very personification of the "vampiric forces of dead capital sucking the life blood of the workers" which featured in his life's work. Actually, Marx was an habitual debtor, and his ramshackle philosophy is a pretentious, pseudo-scientific amalgam of Hegelian mysticism and displaced personal resentment. Paul Johnson's Intellectuals includes an amusingly sardonic psychological portrait of the old fraud.
99 posted on 02/18/2002 9:31:39 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: Goldhammer
You are quite deluded.
Perhaps. But unlike you, I know how to read.
100 posted on 02/18/2002 11:19:24 PM PST by Asclepius
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