Israel asks America to strike western Iraq first, if it decides to fight Saddam

Defense Minister Benjamin Ben-Eliezer paid a visit to the secretive Ness Ziona Biological Institute yesterday.

The Home Front commander, Maj. Gen. Yosef Mishlav, said recently that the plan to transfer the Home Front to the Ministry for Public Security has been frozen, so defending the population from nuclear, chemical, and biological warfare is still in the hands of the defense minister.

Ben-Eliezer was accompanied to the institute by an unusually small entourage, to keep a low profile. Presumably, the concern about a possible attack by Iraq, with unconventional payloads delivered by either missiles or planes, was one of the main subjects in the briefing given the minister by his hosts.

According to security sources participating in Israeli preparations for a possible American move on Iraq, any decision by President George W. Bush about when to attack Iraq depends on three main elements: building the case against Saddam, including charges and evidence; identifying an alternative ruler to replace Saddam; and building up the forces that will execute the planned attack.

The defense establishment here believes that the Bush administration has given up trying to find an Iraqi version of Afghanistan's Northern Alliance, so Washington is busy studying intelligence profiles of top Iraqi army commanders who could take control in Baghdad concurrent with or immediately after the start of an American campaign. In a U.S. attack, Saddam won't hurry to attack Israel, say defense sources, because, among other reasons, he won't want to expose the weaponry that he managed to hide - and deny he had - over the past decade.

The sources note that unlike the spring of 1990, when Saddam was already threatening to "burn half of Israel" (before he invaded Kuwait) if attacked, no such threats toward Israel have been coming out of Baghdad.

However, should Saddam conclude that the Americans are about to topple him, he'll try to attack Israel with a barrage of missiles or airplanes. Topping Israel's worries are a possible ground-to-ground missile attack, with chemical or biological payloads.

The defense establishment reckons that much lower on the list of possibilities would be Iraq sending pilots on suicide missions, whether to drop non-conventional payloads, or to crash their planes. The loyalty of Iraqi pilots to Saddam, and their readiness to die for him, while his regime is crumbling, is not at all the same as that of Japanese kamikaze pilots, who were ready to die for their emperor at the end of World War II.

In contacts between Israeli and American defense officials over the past few weeks, the Pentagon's representatives were asked to plan their operations in Iraq in such a way as to minimize the Iraqi ability to move missile launchers into western Iraq, from which missiles can reach Israel.

The Americans were told that Israel expects them to conduct operations, including on the ground, in western Iraq from the start of a campaign, and not to wait until Iraq starts launching missile attacks on Israel, as happened in 1991. Israeli officials say they believe the Pentagon will accede to this request.

The Pentagon meanwhile is very interested in technologies, weapons systems, and military doctrines developed in Israel over the past few years. In meetings in Washington with top defense officials and representatives of the Israeli defense establishment, led by Defense Ministry Director-General Amos Yaron, and including the head of weapons development and technology infrastructure Maj. Gen. Dr. Yitzhak Ben-Israel, videos were shown demonstrating examples of Israel's policy of "pinpoint targeting" in the territories. The emphasis was on combat helicopter attacks that caused no collateral damage to anything other than the target, even if many civilians were in the area.

American officers, from both the air force and special operations, visited Israel to learn about "pinpoint targeting" from IDF special operations commanders in the territories. Among other things, the Americans wanted to know about long-distance assassinations, along the lines of the operation - to kill Saddam Hussein - that foreign reports said was being rehearsed at the time of the Tze'elim 2 accident. The Americans were offered Israeli assistance in many areas, including inoculations against anthrax.

Along with the focus on Iraq, the defense establishment is keeping a close eye on developments in Iran. According to the latest Military Intelligence estimate, an event at Tarbit Madras University in Tehran a week ago, may be significant. Attended by government officials, including an adviser to Iranian President Muhamed Hatami, parliamentarians, and academic experts, the event was devoted to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Most of the speakers opposed the conservative policy of the Iranian spiritual leader Ali Hamani and demanded moderation of the government line against Israel, a line that is more extreme than the Palestinians.

Military Intelligence's estimate appears to strengthen the position that Mossad chief Ephraim Halevy publicly stated last month when he said that there is hope for moderation in the Iranian regime.

I agree...watched a program about special forces in the Iraqi western desert..British SAS and U.S...they were very mobile..and did the Lazing ground work for the target package call ins during the Gulf war.
With present capability of Israel and U.S. this will most likely occur again...it is dangerous work though.
One soldier commented that the Iraqi's were bringing the missiles up to the launchers in buses with the seating removed...afterwords..buses were targeting in transit in the western desert when found.
Iraqi's are sneaky...lads will have to be sharp.
A major concern is launches from Syria at Israel...IDF Intel has proof of Iraqi co-oping with Syria..between the two nations..is alot of land to hide scuds.
If Syria can be kept out..Scuds in the Iraqi desert will be picked off quicker than the Gulf war...but If Syria should launch on Israel..it is doubtfull Israel could sit idly by.. things would ramp up quickly with IDF flying strike packages and dropping teams into Syria.
The IDF we know from the past would appear..not the one that sends 2 or 3 tanks in with a few gunship ops in the Westbank
On my part..I hope Syria does get involved....theres some Biblical prophecies I'd like to see fullfilled in my Lifetime!

Western Iraq is mostly desert. There just ain't much we can do about a few scuds (loaded with anthrax or not). But we can establish complete air superiority and make damn sure anything that gets by us will be no problem for the IAF. Assuming Iraq has nukes they won't be light enough to go on a scud. What if Isreal nukes Bagdad after taking an anthrax hit. Where does that leave us? 'We deplore the loss of life but also understand that Sadam brought this down on himself...'

Isreal and the US has another problem. The Isreali right wing is really far gone and is as convinced god is on their side as Osama was (I suspect he knows better now, once Satan had Osama's virgins reveal their leathery wings and fangs, psych). For now the isreali right wing is a loose cannon. There will be a time and a place.

After we knock down Iraq our 'friends' in Saudi/Kuwait/Egypt will have to deal with their internal issues (we will turn up the heat on occasion). They need to decide which side they are on, controlled pressure on them puts them over a barrel. Too much pressure will make them jump the wrong way too soon. I expect them to ultimatly jump anyhow, but not untill after a bloody set of civil wars.

Think about what happened to the trecherous French. They went through a series of wars starting with Napolian and ending in WWI that left them with no genes for balls (and inches shorter). This is what needs to be arranged for the house of Fahad and others. Before this is done they will be out of oil or oil will be obsolete (I know its a liberal dream but look at the curve for $/watt on photovoltaics, It needs one more halving to be economical. Then the liberals will take back seat to physcal conservatives getting bargin power). The rest of the world can go back to ignoring them.

Hmm, lets see...

Isreal - 110 billion
Syria - 50 billion
Jordan - 15 billion
Iraq - 55 billion
Lebenon - 20 billion

Looks to me like they have enough money to handle this bunch. We aren't comparing Isreal to Walmart here, we are comparing them to their potential enemies (Jordan ain't one, but they are there for completeness).

There is no way that Egypt makes a move on Isreal, as that would signal their demise.

The loyalty of Iraqi pilots to Saddam, and their readiness to die for him, while his regime is crumbling, is not at all the same as that of Japanese kamikaze pilots, who were ready to die for their emperor at the end of World War II.

Actually, it is only a popular myth that the Japanese kamikaze pilots were that dedicated. Most (including a close friend of mine who was training when the war ended) were kids in their mid or late teens, many who had been spared from the draft because they were the most promising of students. They were strapped into planes with just enough fuel to reach the target and told that they would explode if they tried to land. They "volunteered" only for the sake of their families.

The idea of kamikaze pilots actually came from the torpedo 1 squadron of the U.S.S. Hornet during the battle of Midway. They arrived at the target early without benefit of fighter escort. Rather than attempting to break off and escape (which would've been fruitless against the faster Japanese Zeros anyway), they plowed right though and into the ships. While the damage was minimal, the Japanese task force admiral was said to have remarked to his second in command that if this is typical of American courage, Japan had made a grave mistake in attacking Pearl Harbor. Minutes later, the American dive bombers arrived and proceeded to damage 3 of the 4 carriers while the Zeros were concentrated on mopping up torpedo 1.

|||||||The Pentagon meanwhile is very interested in technologies, weapons systems, and military doctrines developed in Israel over the past few years. In meetings in Washington with top defense officials and representatives of the Israeli defense establishment, led by Defense Ministry Director-General Amos Yaron, and including the head of weapons development and technology infrastructure Maj. Gen. Dr. Yitzhak Ben-Israel, videos were shown demonstrating examples of Israel's policy of "pinpoint targeting" in the territories. The emphasis was on combat helicopter attacks that caused no collateral damage to anything other than the target, even if many civilians were in the area.

Turkey WOULD NOT tell us to get out, they actually have pretty good relations with Israel. If Israel struck back after being attacked, they actually might get help FROM Turkey, in an assault on the borders that it shares with Iraq.

Iraq is a VERY tricky situation, because it could cause harm to 2 of our best allies in that part of the world, Israel, for obvious reasons, and Turkey, because they have a small Kurdish problem that could turn into a BIG one if Iraq is splintered, and they do a lot of trading with Iraq, and that loss to the Turkish economy could be devastating right now.

Turkey would take that if we assure them that A: we will put a new regime in place that will control ALL of Iraq, and B: they will still be able to trade with them afterwards and C: The Kurds would NOT be given land in which to strike Turkey across it's borders.

The rest of your scenario sounds reasonable, but leave Turkey within the western coalition category, because they are NOT going anywhere near the Muslim extremist countries, they want to stay as far away from them as they can get.

But, since Israel is a mono-ethnic theocratic state

That's a lie. Rabbis do not run Israel. In contrast Mullahs run Iran. Typical leftist swill from you.

in the same league as South African it has to suffer the same fate.

In your wet dreams dude! Hahhaha. A typical leftist fantasy. If Israel does go down it will do the world a big favor and take the Arabs out too.

Israeli soldiers carry the cofin of Arab Israeli soldier Ashraf Hawas during his funeral in the town of Bet Zarziv, January 10, 2002. Hawas was one of four Israeli soldiers killed on Wednesday by two Palestinian gunmen in a raid on a military post in Israel. The attack near Israel's border with the Gaza Strip on Wednesday, in which the gunmen also died, ended a three-week lull which had provided a glimmer of hope that Israel and the Palestinians might implement a truce-to-talks plan. REUTERS/Goran Tomasevic

Sujud, a five-month-old Palestinian baby girl from the Khan Younis refugee camp, awaiting heart surgery at Israels Wolfson hospital on January 30, 2002, in Holon near Tel Aviv, where Israeli doctors and nurses have treated some 140 Palestinian children for congenital heart defect for the Save a Childs Heart charity. REUTERS/Havakuk Levison FOR GENERAL FEATURE LIFE-MIDEAST-HEART

A Palestinian chants slogans against America during a protest in the Gaza Strip, January 27, 2002. U.S. President George W. Bush's harsh criticism of Yasser Arafat drew praise from Israel on Sunday and a call for U.S. sanctions against the besieged Palestinian leader. REUTERS/Suhaib Salem

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