Was Peter the "Rock"?

Cornerstone Church ^

[Sir Gawain]

Was Peter the "Rock"?

Question: Was Peter the "rock" on which Jesus will build His church?

Answer: Here is the passage that you are referring to:

Matthew 16:13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He began asking His disciples, saying, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?"

Matthew 16:14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets."

Matthew 16:15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 16:18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it."

The Greek word for Peter is petros, meaning "a pebble." The Greek word for rock is petra, meaning "a massive rock" such as bedrock. Jesus is the Rock, petra. Everyone who receives this revelation from the Father like Peter received it—that Jesus is the Son of God (Lord and Savior)—becomes a part of His Church.

Christ used the word petra when He told the parable of the man building a house upon a rock to illustrate its size.

Matthew 7:24-25 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts upon them, may be compared to a wise man, who built his house upon the rock (petra). And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and burst against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded upon the rock (petra)."

Jesus was talking about building upon bedrock, not a pebble.

The apostle Paul tells us that Jesus is the foundation upon which we build our lives:

1 Cor. 3:11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

The apostle Peter also informed up that every believer is a "stone" and that Jesus Christ is the "cornerstone" or foundation.

1 Peter 2:4-6 And coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected by men, but choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For this is contained in Scripture: "Behold I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious cornerstone, and he who believes in Him shall not be disappointed."

Every believer is a stone in Christ’s Church. Peter was not the rock, but just one of many who are a part of this spiritual house of worship.

[peabers]

By the way Campion, Jesus did spend his young life in Egypt and in Egypt of that time if you wanted to make a living as a carpenter you spoke Greek.

Jesus was still a young child when Herod died, and the family returned to Israel. Jesus wasn't a carpenter in Egypt. Also, there was only one Aramaic word for those who worked in the construction industry and who weren't masons. In fact, Joseph and Jesus were architects, hence their advanced education.

[Arthur McGowan]

Have you read Post #6 yet? Do you have any response to each of Campion's points?

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Actually, this argument about Peter and the Greek definition of rock has always appeared to me to be bootless.

The better question to ask is: Does Jesus speak in the first person throughout his sentence to Peter, or does he switch from first person to third person in the middle of it?

If he switches from first to third person, then he is obviously talking about Peter being the foundation of the church.

However, if he is talking to Peter throughout the sentence in the first person (more reasonable considering the context), then it appears Revelation from G-d is the foundation of His church.

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

We have no manuscripts going back prior to the Greek, so it's all speculative as to what might have preceded what we have. And much "scientific biblical criticism" has an axe of one kind or another to grind.

Well actually, we do have manuscripts from Naghamaddi sp? and Qumran.  Also, it has been noted that Jesus' ministry was to the Jews.  We have ample evidence that Jesus and His Apostles taught in Aramaic since he was constantly expounding the scriptures.  At that time, the almost fanatical devotion by the Pharisees to all things Jewish guaranteed that Jesus had to argue his case in Aramaic.  Furthermore, his Apostles were, by and large, common men and were probably unlearned in Greek.

I will agree that too much so-called Biblical scholarship seems to have an axe to grind.

[Mercat]

No expert here but didn't Paul defer to Peter and the elders in Jerusalem? His writings and teachings may have survived and been made part of the Christian Bible because he had the backing of the surviving apostles.. no small accomplishment.

And just to keep the debate going on the intercession of Mary and the Saints... Evangelicals often say, "Pray for me." or "I will pray for you." We are exorted to pray for each other. Why is it not appropriate to ask the communion of Saints and the mother of Jesus to pray for us to God? Many find comfort and the path to Christ through these means? If your God then throws them into hell for praying through his Mother, then we have different gods.
Peace.

[BibChr]

Whoever you cut and pasted that from has an axe to grind. No need to rape the text. The pericope (and the Bible) is about Who is Christ?, not about Who is Peter? The person who confesses Christ as God incarnate (as Peter did) has said a mouthfull.

In fact... he's said a mountainfull. As Jesus, in effect, observed.

Dan

[SoothingDave]

Irrevelant,the church soon drifted into error and the keys were taken away..

Chapter and verse, please?

SD

[Gophack]

Actually, the only specific prayer He gave us was the Lord's Prayer. Does that mean that's the only prayer we may give to God? Do all our other prayers fall on hollow ears?

[RnMomof7]

Mark 7
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Sola Scripture Dave ..

[SoothingDave]

Sola Scripture Dave ..

#1, the passage you quote is Jesus speaking to the Pharisees of the day, not to what you imagine is the failings of the Catholic (or any) church.

#2, this passage in no way says what you say, that the church soon drifted into error and the keys were taken away..

So, chapter and verse please. Where does the Bible say that the keys given to Peter would soon be taken away?

SD

[CometBaby]

Irrevelant,the church soon drifted into error and the keys were taken away..

What does that prove? EVERY single organized religion that has ever been invented has fallen into error. Self-righteousness is only a figment of one's imagination. :-)

[maestro]

Wow!! Your# 110)

........7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, ......

[In Vain]

Was Peter the "Rock"?
Was Peter the "Christ"?

The Messiah is the "Rock of Ages"
The "Rock of Ages" of Israel is God Himself!

Done!

[RnMomof7]

#1, the passage you quote is Jesus speaking to the Pharisees of the day

Yes it is Dave, and I would argue that God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow..and what was an abomination to Him then is an abomination to Him today.
Malachi
3:6"For I [am] the LORD, I change not..."

God raised up men to bring the word back to the place he intended it.

[Gophack]

I re-read my post #86 and I didn't think that the people I quoted had an axe to grind. I thought they made a compelling argument -- using the Greek since you indicated Aramaic wasn't acceptable -- that because Peter was a male, using the female 'petra' would have been silly.

Why would Jesus say, "You are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church" if he didn't mean Peter was the rock? Why change Simon's name at all? Do we know that Jesus used gestures to mean the rock was He? No, because that's not in there. Why would Jesus give Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven if he was a mere pebble? Why Peter? Why not Paul? Or John? Or Matthew?

I agree with you that the Gospel is of course about Who is Jesus? What did He say? What did He do? Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, and in that His flesh died, his body resurrected, and He is in heaven with His Father. Does that mean there is no church? That the church is in heaven, and were are but a bunch of spiritual beings loosely joined by our agreement that Jesus Christ died for our sins and our salvation?

I do believe that Jesus Christ established his church on earth, that He made Peter the foundation for His church, and that we have apostolic succession from then to now through the Bishop of Rome. The apostles looked to Peter, knowing he had the authority from Jesus Himself, for answers, as written in the New Testament. Early church fathers never disputed the primacy of Peter. Does this mean that Peter is equal to God or that we worship him? Of course not. We only worship God.

I know that Mt 16:18 is arguably the biggest sticking point between Catholics and other Christians, and I am sorry about that. I pray someday that we will be unified again. Until then, we have so much we agree on. And there is so much work here on Earth to do that we can join together in. For example, I am very involved in the pro-life community. I have many Protestant friends who help in pro-life work. By working together to end the horrors of abortion, we know that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ and can love each other, even if today we don't agree.

God bless.

[stuartcr]

Learned persons throughout history have been known to use phrases/words of other languages to make their point.

[RnMomof7]

What does that prove? EVERY single organized religion that has ever been invented has fallen into error. Self-righteousness is only a figment of one's imagination. :-)

The one thing that does not change is the word of God.

You can not justify killing your neighbor because another neighbor killed his..You can not use the error or sin of another to justify your error.That is why it is dangerous to bulid your faith on anything but Christ

It is never Jesus + someting

Salvation is of our God.

[stuartcr]

So God is the same after the birth of Christ, as He was prior to the birth of Christ?

[RnMomof7]

yes

[stuartcr]

Does that mean that if I believe in God, but not Jesus Christ, we all believe the same?