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Men Paying on Dates: Women Love It, Men Less Sure
Reuters ^ | Friday, February 1st, 2002 | E. J. Mundell

Posted on 02/04/2002 11:16:55 AM PST by TexRef

SAVANNAH, Georgia (Reuters Health) - ``I'll get that'': those three little words may be music to many women's ears, but preliminary research suggests men may be a bit more cynical about picking up the tab.

After viewing a video in which a man pays for his date's dinner, most college-age women took it to be a sign that he was more ``respectful'' and ``romantically attracted'' to the woman in question, researchers report.

However, a group of young men watching the same interaction ''saw this guy as less respectful to the woman, less respectable himself,'' said study author Bill Altermatt, of the University of Michigan-Flint. He speculates that men may be more mistrustful than women regarding the motives that drive guys to spring for a meal.

The findings were presented here Friday at the annual meeting of the Society for Personality and Social Psychology.

Speaking with Reuters Health, Altermatt described the tradition of the male picking up the tab as just one part of the ``chivalry script,'' a ritual stretching back to ``the origins of courting in the United States, when men had jobs and women didn't.'' Previous study has suggested that other parts of this ''script''--pulling out chairs, holding doors, offering coats--are still viewed positively by men and women alike.

In their recent experiment, Altermatt and his colleagues exposed 35 undergraduates to two videotaped ``dates.'' The dates were identical in all but one respect--in one date the man paid the bill, and in the other the couple split the cost 50-50.

Women typically gave the man higher marks when he sprang for the meal, labeling him kind, respectful and polite--''a gentleman.''

Men were more negative in their reaction.

``I've got to follow this up with some research to find out,'' Altermatt said, ``but my theory is that because men are the ones (typically) initiating this behavior, they might have--I'd hate to say it--some insight into some of the motivations that might be behind it. Perhaps they are seeing his behavior as a little more strategic.''

He cautioned that the study sample size was far too small to draw the conclusion that women are naive and men cynical when it comes to paying the bill. But research suggests that the deference paid to women during courtship can be a double-edged sword.

``The take-home message is that chivalry is both good and bad,'' Altermatt said. ``Chivalry is related to both the stereotype that women are more virtuous than men, but also that women are less competent and powerful than men,'' and in need of their assistance, financial and otherwise.

So if chivalry isn't dead, should it be killed off? ``My hope is that there are some parts of the chivalry script that can be salvaged,'' the Michigan researcher said. ``While some parts might be bad--undermining women's independence--some parts might be fine. Holding the chair might be fine. We don't know yet. Maybe we can preserve the romantic script without undermining a woman's independence.''


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However, a group of young men watching the same interaction ''saw this guy as less respectful to the woman, less respectable himself,''

What a bunch of girlie-men. This is a direct result of the feminization of America...

IMHO, women that think that a guy picking up the tab is demeaning to them or to women aren't worth dating.

Interesting though that most women viewed it as a positive thing... Shows (to me) that most women still want to be treated like women, no matter what the FemiNazis say.

1 posted on 02/04/2002 11:16:55 AM PST by TexRef
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To: TexRef
I've been on quite a few dates in my 36 years, and I have yet to expect a lady to pay for a meal, a movie, or a drink. Any guy who would expect that must fashion himself a "playa". This must be talking about the effete wannabes who go out with escort service hags.
2 posted on 02/04/2002 11:25:31 AM PST by cincinnati_Steve
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To: TexRef
If I'm going out on a date, I pay. That's just the way it is. If a woman thinks that's demeaning, we're not going out again, ever. I'm going to open the doors too. That's the way I was brought up.
3 posted on 02/04/2002 11:26:04 AM PST by SoDak
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To: TexRef
Picking up the tab is definitely strategic thinking.

It's an investment with payoff to come later.

4 posted on 02/04/2002 11:26:23 AM PST by ZOOKER
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To: TexRef
I'm the luckiest SOB alive! My lady pays almost every time. She says it's because she makes more money, and because she doesn't drive. I think it's because she's nice

I help her on and off with her coat, open doors for her, help her sit down and walk with her up and down stairs. She says it's because I'M nice. I say it's because she deserves it, being a Lady and all...

what other folks think, I really don't gie a rat's Clinton about.

5 posted on 02/04/2002 11:30:50 AM PST by camle
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: TexRef
What a bunch of girlie-men. This is a direct result of the feminization of America...

I agree totally. Picking up the tab on the first date is always the gentleman's responsiblity, period. After the first date, if the lady is quite certain that she is not interested in him, her responsiblity as a lady is to simply not accept any more date offers from him. The sad thing is this will sound so quaint to a lot of people today.

7 posted on 02/04/2002 11:33:49 AM PST by jpl
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To: jpl
I liked your post. Of course, if the woman invites the man out (which I never did, it wasn't done in my day) she should pay.

I'd like to see the return of the traditional, here. I think if a fellow asks a girl out, knowing he will be paying for the meal and entertainment, he's more likely to pick someone that he has a genuine interest in being with...unless of course, he's after a quid pro quo, then I'd think he could get that cheaper and easier on the street.

9 posted on 02/04/2002 11:38:08 AM PST by Judith Anne
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To: TexRef
Maybe we can preserve the romantic script without undermining a woman's independence.

All throughout the animal kingdom the male "picks up the tab" on a date. This isn't a human only custom subject to PC modification. A bird provides a fish, the dung beetle provides a ball of dung, etc. The researcher has a basic misunderstanding of the birds and the bees. He must be a Liberal.

10 posted on 02/04/2002 11:41:28 AM PST by Reeses
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To: TexRef
The researcher is laboring under a couple of misapprehensions: (1) that a woman's self-esteem suffers when a man pays (did he actually ask any real, breathing, women?) and (2) that a man picking up a check constitutes a down-payment on a roll in the hay. The last may work in theory, but frankly, I haven't seen it work much in practice. I am not bitter...

my theory is that because men are the ones (typically) initiating this behavior, they might have--I'd hate to say it--some insight into some of the motivations that might be behind it. Perhaps they are seeing his behavior as a little more strategic.

Perhaps he ought to ask a few men, too. Better still, perhaps he ought to date a little himself.

11 posted on 02/04/2002 11:42:10 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: camle
I totally agree. Anyone that let's their ego get in the way of a simple calculation of 'who can afford it best' is a fool. IMO.
12 posted on 02/04/2002 11:43:26 AM PST by beowolf
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To: beowolf
I agree with the hospitality angle more than anything. She shows respect for the expenses I incurr picking her up, keepping the cars up, gas, etc.. and she buys meals most (but not all) of the time. We have argued about who would pay (I'll pay,- no me!) but those don't usually last

but a meal that I pay for, I don't really give the money much thought. if it pays for anything (Besides the grub), it is the pleasure of the lady's company, period. To make other expectations is insincere, cynical, and explains why some folks aren't as lucky as I.

13 posted on 02/04/2002 11:48:03 AM PST by camle
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To: TexRef
``Interesting though that most women viewed it as a positive thing... Shows (to me) that most women still want to be treated like women, no matter what the FemiNazis say.

Yup :-)

14 posted on 02/04/2002 11:49:00 AM PST by Happygal
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To: classygreeneyedblond
PING! How do you see it gorgeous?
15 posted on 02/04/2002 11:50:05 AM PST by Tattooed Soul
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To: TexRef
I expect the man to pay if he asks me out on a date, and if I ask him over for dinner at the house, I buy the food.... and it's nice if he brings wine, but I don't expect it. If a guy is accompanying me and my kids on an outing that I suggested, then I pay..... but it's all been awhile. My memory is sprained now. *L* There's the demeaning part -- not being asked out.
16 posted on 02/04/2002 11:50:28 AM PST by ValerieUSA
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To: one_particular_harbour
Could you introduce me to your friends?
17 posted on 02/04/2002 11:53:30 AM PST by HHFi
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To: beowolf
Anyone that let's their ego get in the way of a simple calculation of 'who can afford it best' is a fool.

A fool is a woman who mates with a male who cannot afford to provide for her and the children. If the male cannot afford to pay, he is not ready to start mating, and the female should reject him. Intuitively she knows this, though the existence of a nice welfare system alters nature's intention, and we end up with de-evolution (i.e. more Democrats).

18 posted on 02/04/2002 11:53:49 AM PST by Reeses
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To: camle
To me, it's rather simple. There have been times in my life when I was less than well-endowed in the financial department. Does that mean that I should have been deprived of female companionship? The concept is absurd, IMO. It literally makes the comapnionship of women a 'pay as you go' proposition. Women become whores because you are buying their time.
19 posted on 02/04/2002 11:55:28 AM PST by beowolf
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To: Reeses
Spoken like a dweeb that thinks their money makes them into a Brad Pitt.
20 posted on 02/04/2002 11:58:36 AM PST by beowolf
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