Muslim Woman Sues over Drivers License [FL: Show your face on driver license photo; FL Woman: No]

The Orlando Sentinel ^ | Jan. 30, 2002 | P. Gutierrez and A. Rippel

[bwteim]

What are the laws like in FL?

See Florida Statutes 2001, CHAPTER 322, DRIVERS' LICENSES

[summer]

Re your post #203 -- LOL! Thanks, "RIGHT SAID SERE_DOC"! :)

[Xenalyte]

Sultaana Freeman . . . says her religion doesn't allow her to show her face to strangers.

I'd be interested in finding out why all the Islamic women in Houston don't veil, then. If it's required, all the Muslim women I see are going to hell. If it's not required, the Sultana (I refuse to recognize the stupid and artificial double vowels in Let's Make Up A Cool Name names) is WAY wrong.

I'd also like to know what her Christian name was before she elevated herself to Saudi royalty.

[Xenalyte]

We have an American USAF officer suing for the right NOT to have to wear the abaya in Saudi Arabia, and an American women suing for the right to wear it here.

No one is arguing that she doesn't have the right to wear the nijab here - just that if she doesn't take it off, she'll be refused the PRIVILEGE of a driver's license (which, last I checked, wasn't in the Constitution).

[Xenalyte]

. . . women must always wear spandex or nothing at all.

I'd advise a) rethinking this policy, or b) being quite selective in your membership. Spandex, like chainmail and a driver's license, is a privilege - NOT a right.

Plus, it's rather unforgiving. Leather all the way!

[Razz Barry]

May I join your church? I've talked of doing something like that for thirty years.

[bwteim]

I nominate you to keep track of all holiday matters

Sorry, been just too busy on FR keeping up with Bush2000, Toupsie, CheneyChick, Fish Hawk, and Sabertooth while trying not get fired from my day-job....Just keep in mind the forgettable words of Mo Udall:

"If nominated, I will run--for the Mexican border. If elected, I will fight extradition."

[Xenalyte]

So when do we celebrate it? I think the festivities should begin Friday at 4:30. And, of course, the rite must take place in an establishment that has a posted maximum occupancy.

[Xenalyte]

All hail Bob Dobbs!

[Harp]

BUT why did she want my headcovering (which just covers the crown of my head) off?

Probably because it's the standard thing to ask people to do. Men, for example, are asked to take off their caps, beanies, or ten gallon hats.

She might have known you were a Mennonite, but even if she did, she might have asked you to take the covering off anyway since it would be wrong to presume someone's religion because of what they wear. (Yeah, that's goofy political correctness.)

If I had to guess though, she probably just didn't recognize you as a Mennonite.

[summer]

"If nominated, I will run--for the Mexican border. If elected, I will fight extradition."

LOL...

[general_re]

I hardly think the Florida courts are going to give her something that the laws don't.

Uhhh, yeah. So you were on Mars or something during that whole Bush v. Gore thing, then?

[summer]

May I join your church? I've talked of doing something like that for thirty years.

Yes, of course, and as we now have an opening to fill with respect to someone to figure out and keep track off all holiday matters, perhaps you could give some thought to that and let us know.

[bwteim]

So when do we celebrate it? I think the festivities should begin Friday at 4:30. And, of course, the rite must take place in an establishment that has a posted maximum occupancy.

I'm game if you show up as "Xena lookalike by night" [does not have to be same as your DL photo....]

[hgro]

Too bad she doesn't live in Saudia Arabia. There she would have no problem - women aren't allowed to drive.

[Cacique]

Having a driver's license is a "privilege" NOT a "right". If you want to partake of that "privilege" you must comply with it's requirements.

[FourtySeven]

Kinda like the people in this Thread -- letting this woman preserve her privacy from grocery store clerks is like beating you half to death, it appears.

I agree with this up to a point. There is another issue here though, one that you inadvertently hit upon in this quote. Her intention is to hide her identity, that is why she wears the covering, that's why she doesn't want it removed in her drivers licence photo. But unfortunately in our society, for better or worse, driver licenses are used as a form of identification. Indeed, what is the point of having the picture there at all, if it's not to identify the holder of the license as the actual registered driver? After this picture is taken, she could conceivably give it to anyone who is similarly dressed, and that person could pass themselves off as her. Looking at the photo, I myself immediately thought of that possibility.

I do agree though that she has a right to hide her face, but since this can easily be used to fake identities, I don't think she should be permitted to do it on a form of identification that is widely accepted as reliable. It sets a dangerous precident, in my opinion.

[Goetz_von_Berlichingen]

"I don't show my face to strangers or unrelated males," Freeman said.

At the risk of sounding Jesuitical, it is not "her face" on the driver's license. It is an image of her face. To be an Islamic strict-constructionist, this would mean that only a "related male" could be present when were picture is taken. Even this can be obviated it the photographer is a woman.

If she is issued a license and for some reason is pulled over by the constabulary, I suppose that she could demand that only a female officer could look at the license. The almost politically correct solution to that problem is to clap her in irons and bring her downtown so that her credentials can be validated. And if they can't find a female officer for a couple of days, ain't that just too damned bad? As an Islamic woman, she should be used to prisoner status.

[summer]

I do agree though that she has a right to hide her face, but since this can easily be used to fake identities, I don't think she should be permitted to do it on a form of identification that is widely accepted as reliable. It sets a dangerous precident, in my opinion.

I agree -- and, I am shocked that Minnesota state laws allows this to happen, as someone demonstrated earlier by posting said laws on this thread.

[Hacksaw]

And of course, America's cancer, the ACLU, is behind this.