Posted on 01/28/2002 2:05:28 PM PST by John Jorsett
I believe you assume right. The real problem for me is with the notion that a U.S. president could knowingly shirk his duties to defend our borders from foreign invasion, make no serious effort to apprehend and deport the illegal aliens already here and refuse to enforce the immigration laws on the books. Bush's proposed Amnesty for millions of illegal aliens and immigrant welfare just adds insult to injury.
It is hard for me to fathom how Bush & Co. can be so callous to the interests of Americans citizens in allowing this invasion from Mexico to go on unchecked--especially in this post 9/11 world. The liberals have to love his stupidity though. While Bush ignores the laws he was sworn to uphold in a bizarre gambit to get Hispanic votes (preferring to shackle the freedoms of Americans instead), he is helping the Democrats build on their ever growing permanent underclass of democratic voters.
I just have to laugh at the thinking of Karl Rove that Bush could out pander the democrats when it comes to giving away taxpayer monies to Hispanic voters. I mean at the endgame of all these assaults on America's security, sovereignty and culture is some of the most deluded, naïve, flat out stupid political strategy I have ever seen.
No, I just want some reality. I'm willing to pay the price tag for ending illegal immigration. Are you?
The propaganda from your side of this issue no longer sells.
The propaganda from your side never did.
The immigration issue is gaining traction with the electorate--the overwhelming majority of which want major reforms.
Right up to the moment that those reforms get spelled out--and then people say, "Oh, NO, we can't have asset forfeiture on ANGLOS, we can't have any form of national ID."
You want to go to Heaven. You ain't willing to pay for the ticket.
The truth about needed immigration reform has resonated with the public for decades. Of course one would rarely notice this give the censorship and multiculturalist ways of the dominant media. The press has indeed given much political cover for both parties on this issue. My take is that most citizens have had enough with the status quo immigration “free for all” and want fundamental changes. It will be interesting to see just how popular immigration reform becomes in this year’s election and in 2004.
Current technology perhaps, but they seem to have things working on some interstates out in CA. Of course it doesn't rain much out there.
Needless to say, any NID Smartcard would use new technologies, and with the comming advent of atomic (nano) scale IC's; integrating GPS and other technologies as they desire. No one say's the gubmint has to use inferior equipment. It's OUR tax dollars afterall, and they've never had a problem spending them when they've got an agenda.
OK, so are you in favor allowing government decisions to be made on the contents of numerous private databases?
If so, then we have an even worse scenario--we have a database maintained by private citizens being used for justifying official decision-making. The owner of the database can't be held to the same level of accountability as the government official SHOULD be (I know they aren't, but I WANT them held to that standard), because he never stuck his paw up in the air and swore to uphold and defend the Constitution. More to the point, you would provide a handy-dandy immunization from prosecution for out-of-control goobermint officials. "I just did what the little voices inaccurate database told me to."
If we had a system of rewards for turning in illegals (say a $1000 reward and a $200 filing fee, forfeit the $200 if you are wrong) we could be rid of all illegals for the cost of 2 years of the INS budget, or less.
I can see two problems: first off, you would have to pay a LOT of investigators and prosecutors for the duration of the effort.
Second issue: how many people would subject their neighbor they dislike to perfectly legal INS harrassment for a lousy $200? Answer: more than you'd believe possible.
Forfeit the filing fee, PLUS a lot more money, PLUS a few years of your life in return for a maliciously false accusation, and I might support that idea.
It's operating at just about the maximum range for the system--and that's less than twenty feet.
Needless to say, any NID Smartcard would use new technologies, and with the comming advent of atomic (nano) scale IC's; integrating GPS and other technologies as they desire.
Wow, you are off target here. First, any system implemented would use the CURRENTLY available technology, because the RDT&E for the proposal you outlined would give Congress sticker shock.
Second, part of the problem with frequency is that the size of your antenna determines the size of your card, and the frequency you are using determines the size of your antenna. You want GPS? See how big the GPS antenna is. Before long, that SmartCard is now a SmartBrick.
Like I said, if you are worried, stick the thing in a mylar pouch between uses.
No one say's the gubmint has to use inferior equipment. It's OUR tax dollars afterall, and they've never had a problem spending them when they've got an agenda.
When the amount t be spent is astronomical, the delay in getting the ID fielded is considerable, and the likelihood of technological success is minimal...yes, Congress will have a problem.
Well this statement shows your complete ignorance to the law. If your statement was true, then the majority of the US would already belong to Mexico, as they would all come north, say they are US citizens and be free to enter the country and take over. Just stating that you are a US citizen does not give you any rights in the US or protect you under any law in the US. You must prove to that jack-booted thug that you are in reality a US citizen, and I don't care how you word your declaration of citizenship, the burden of proof is on you to prove it, and it takes a lot more then just handing me a birth certificate and saying you were born in the US.
And while we are on the subject, why don't you post you OPLAN for protecting the borders. I'm sure it looks like Swiss cheese.
I'm not quarreling with you at all--please note I was being somewhat sarcastic in saying "jack-booted thug." I'm pointing out that some of the folks on this board have about as much use for law enforcement of ANY flavor as real live criminals do.
Just stating that you are a US citizen does not give you any rights in the US or protect you under any law in the US.
Again, that's not the wisdom in some quarters of this board. I'm with you on that, but a lot of folks here on FR would just as soon spit at you as answer any question you ask them.
You must prove to that jack-booted thug that you are in reality a US citizen, and I don't care how you word your declaration of citizenship, the burden of proof is on you to prove it, and it takes a lot more then just handing me a birth certificate and saying you were born in the US.
Again, some of the cop-hating folks on FR feel differently.
And while we are on the subject, why don't you post you OPLAN for protecting the borders. I'm sure it looks like Swiss cheese.
First, deactivate the BATF, transfer its headcount to the INS/BP. Second, deactivate the DEA and transfer those persons to INS/BP or Customs as appropriate. Third, get rid of all interior checkpoints (San Onofre and Temecula come to mind) and place those persons on the borders. That ought to get the body count up a bit higher.
Next, bump up the penalties for hiring illegal aliens, despite the howls of protest that will accompany same. (BTW, expect those howls to be heard on Free Republic more than from the DemocRATS.)
Also, END welfare completely. This country is a really lousy one to be poor in if the government quits subsidizing same. If they can't afford to live here, they won't.
Finally, put in a bracero program that (a) allows people to cross the border for work, (b) clears them out when work isn't available, and (c) makes it clear that violating bracero status means that the violator is permanently barred from ever entering the United States.
First, deactivate the BATF, transfer its headcount to the INS/BP. Second, deactivate the DEA and transfer those persons to INS/BP or Customs as appropriate. Third, get rid of all interior checkpoints (San Onofre and Temecula come to mind) and place those persons on the borders. That ought to get the body count up a bit higher.
Please don't place those idiots at BAFT in with us. Just disband BAFT and all federal BAFT regulations and let the States decide how they want to regulate alcohol, tobacco and firearms. I think the DEA should go with Customs, as INS deals with people not product. As for getting rid of the interior check points, I say no. The INS will never have enough bodies to cover every foot of our border, so some people will get through between the Border Inspection Stations, and interior checks points are still the best bet on catching these people. But, I would make them all mobile as opposed to permanent. Permanent check points are easy to defeat. INS needs to mix it up and not get complacent.
Next, bump up the penalties for hiring illegal aliens, despite the howls of protest that will accompany same. (BTW, expect those howls to be heard on Free Republic more than from the DemocRATS.)
I've brought this point up on several occasions and most everyone aggress that this needs to be done. I think this is the INS's weakest link. If you make it hell to employ illegal aliens, then no one will employ them. If there are no jobs, they won't come looking for jobs. Unfortunately big money would be against this and since our leaders in Washington are for sale, we lose.
Also, END welfare completely. This country is a really lousy one to be poor in if the government quits subsidizing same. If they can't afford to live here, they won't.
A very good point that I completely agree upon.
Finally, put in a bracero program that (a) allows people to cross the border for work, (b) clears them out when work isn't available, and (c) makes it clear that violating bracero status means that the violator is permanently barred from ever entering the United States.
Also very good, but you must include the stipulation that this program can not ever lead to residency, except for marriage to a USC. It seems to me, that every new visa program INS implements, they all seem to lead to residency, and I'm sure that any program like this that Bush would support, would have some loop hole that allows everyone to become a resident, which is what he wants anyway.
Incidentally, guess who killed the bracero program in 1965? Democrats and Big Labor. Care to guess what year we really started having an illegal immigration problem?
They will agree right up until their ox gets gored, and that will happen sooner than you think.
I think this is the INS's weakest link. If you make it hell to employ illegal aliens, then no one will employ them. If there are no jobs, they won't come looking for jobs.
Exactly.
Unfortunately big money would be against this and since our leaders in Washington are for sale, we lose.
Hell, even SMALL money is against enforcement of the laws against hiring illegals. We actually had a smalltime guy get busted out here in SD for hiring day labor--and after a few piddling campaign donations to Shrillary!, Boxer, Feinstein, and Filner, the charges got dropped on the spot.
I don't think posting a bond is a good idea, just getting hitched cost enough. Currently, when a none citizen marries a US citizen, the aliens first two years of residency are conditional. At the end of two years they get interviewed and then it is decided if the marriage is legit. It's probably not to hard to live with someone you don't love for two years just to get a green card.
I would recommend that the 2 year period be extended to 5 years and they get an interview every year as well as a criminal history check. Any criminal violation, other than minor traffic stuff, gets you the boot. IMHO.
Incidentally, guess who killed the bracero program in 1965? Democrats and Big Labor. Care to guess what year we really started having an illegal immigration problem?
Yes, I know.
Reply to post #233
Hell, even SMALL money is against enforcement of the laws against hiring illegals. We actually had a smalltime guy get busted out here in SD for hiring day labor--and after a few piddling campaign donations to Shrillary!, Boxer, Feinstein, and Filner, the charges got dropped on the spot.
Actually, it is not illegal to hire a day laborer. If you went out and found some one to mow your lawn, it is not your responsibility to determine or know this persons citizenship or legal status in the US. But, if you continue to hire the same person over and over, then you run into problems, as you have now entered into a business relationship. And with any relationship, you are to have some idea of who you are dealing with.
But, the one time, pick up the trash, mow the lawn, wash to car stuff is actually legal, at least for your average citizen. I can't do it, because of my position in INS.
Well, a lot of folks who hire day labor know these people by their first names and shoot the breeze with 'em while getting a work crew together. Sounds like they're using "day labor" as a dodge to get past the legality check.
Now if your a contractor, and you pick these guys up to head to a job, then that is illegal. My above reference was to the average Joe on the street who wants his lawn mowed and would rather have Jose do it, so he can watch football.
DING DING DING! You broke the code, good sir.
"I just did what the little voices inaccurate database told me to."Drug warriors call this probable cause: "I just broke down the door and shot the people my needle-jukie informant told me about." And anyway I would keep the use of private-sector databases in private hands:
Step 1: Citizen finds a likely wetback.
Step 2: Citizen spends his own money to run a background check.
Step3: Citizen dimes out the wetback, including the documentation of the background check. Citizen is at this point $300 down.
Step 4: Citizen keeps on lazy gubmint INS slacker's case until he gets actions, because there is money in it for Citizen.
Step 5: Wetback is detained, can't prove citizenship cuz he ain't one, and is sent home. INS pisses and moans and wants more money blah blah blah. Taxpaying citizens say: "Talk to the hand."
Step 6: INS cuts a check to Citizen.
Rinse and repeat. Until we can fire the sorry lot of that useless INS that let it get out of hand in the first place. Time-to-payback, 5 years, and then we can add the INS's current budget to a tax cut.
In any case, why would the INS "harass" anyone without doing a bit of checking themselves. The net effect of this is the same as your national ID proposal, except citizens are not burdened. Effing gubmint slugs just want more paper to push, and money to push it with.
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