[nightdriver]

"Until that time, wherein He comes to judge us and issues rulings, I think the effort to convert Jews to other ways should be put aside. Presently, we have the Ten Commandments, included in the 613 Mitzvot, and the ethical/moral judgement of wise men who instruct us to treat each other with respect. That is sufficient for now."

Winston uses a lot of straw man arguments to make his points. I would say, "Alright, then. The Old Testament (which all Christians believe) says that the only way to approach God is with a blood sacrifice. Where is your sacrifice?" Without it, their own scriptures tell them they have no right to approach God.

[malakhi]

I would say, "Alright, then. The Old Testament (which all Christians believe) says that the only way to approach God is with a blood sacrifice. Where is your sacrifice?" Without it, their own scriptures tell them they have no right to approach God.

The problem is, your assumptions are wrong. I posted an essay on this on another thread recently; let me go dig it up.

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Sacrifice and Atonement in the Tanakh

We are in agreement that there were a variety of different sacrifices that were made for different purposes. The question then is whether or not blood is required for atonement.

If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock...and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.(Leviticus 1:2,4)

This does not refer to a required sacrifice; the phrase begins conditionally: "IF...you bring an offering..." So here we see that contrary to your conclusion, the blood is not required for atonement. Rather, the blood sacrifice was acceptable for atonement, which is quite a different thing.

Leviticus Chapters 4 and 5 discuss sin offerings. You will note that it is repeated that this sort of sacrifice was for unintentional sins, that is, sins done through ignorance of the Law. As you yourself point out, 5:11states that an offering of flour may be offered if the person is not able to provide the appropriate animal offering. So, while blood sacrifice may be normative for this sort of offering, it is not absolutely required.

Chapter 6:1-7 deals with intentional sin. The sinner is expected to make restitution and then an animal offering. Chapter 16 discusses Yom Kippur. It is true that these passages do not mention alternative means of atonement. However, such means are discussed elsewhere in scripture. More on that later. Not every intentional sin, though, could be atoned for by sacrifice. Some were to be punished, without sacrifice, sometimes even by death:

Moreover you shall accept no ransom for the life of a murderer, who is guilty of death; but he shall be put to death. (Numbers 35:31)

Before I discuss alternative means of atonement, I would like to address the passage that confuses Christians, Leviticus 17:11. This is the verse that people ordinarily cite for the notion that blood is required:

For the soul of the flesh is in the blood and I have assigned it for you upon the altar to provide atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that atones for the soul.

But the passage that this verse comes from is not about atonement; it is about dietary laws, and the passage says only that blood is used to obtain atonement; not that blood is the only means for obtaining atonement. Leviticus 17:10-12 could be paraphrased as "Don't eat blood, because blood is used in atonement rituals; therefore, don't eat blood."

When the laws of sacrifice were laid down in the Torah, the pre-existence of a system of sacrificial offering was understood, and sacrificial terminology was used without any explanation. The Torah, rather than creating the institution of sacrifice, carefully circumscribes and limits the practice, permitting it only in certain places, at certain times, in certain manners, by certain people, and for certain purposes.

Take heed that you do not offer your burnt offerings at every place that you see;
but at the place which the LORD will choose in one of your tribes, there you shall offer your burnt offerings, and there you shall do all that I am commanding you. (Deuteronomy 12:13-14)

Now, the last place that God authorized as the location for sacrifices was the Temple in Jerusalem.

The people were sacrificing at the high places, however, because no house had yet been built for the name of the LORD. (1 Kings 3:2)

Then the LORD appeared to Solomon in the night and said to him: "I have heard your prayer, and have chosen this place for myself as a house of sacrifice. (2 Chronicles 7:12)

And he did what was right in the eyes of the LORD, according to all that David his father had done. He removed the high places, and broke the pillars, and cut down the Ashe'rah. (2 Kings 18:3-4)

As you noted, God established Yom Kippur and the atonement of that day "for ever", as "an everlasting statute". Now, with the building of the Temple it became the only authorized place to offer sacrifice. And with the Law stating that atonement was to be made on Yom Kippur "for ever", what was to be done when the Temple was destroyed? As scripture demonstrates, God offers alternative means.

Charity can provide atonement

And you shall take the atonement money from the people of Israel, and shall appoint it for the service of the tent of meeting; that it may bring the people of Israel to remembrance before the LORD, so as to make atonement for yourselves. (Exodus 30:16)

Prayer can make atonement

Pardon the iniquity of this people, I pray thee, according to the greatness of thy steadfast love, and according as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now."
Then the LORD said, "I have pardoned, according to your word; (Numbers 14:19-20)

Other offerings of value can make atonement

And we have brought the LORD's offering, what each man found, articles of gold, armlets and bracelets, signet rings, earrings, and beads, to make atonement for ourselves before the LORD. (Numbers 31:50)

Turning from evil can make atonement

It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I intend to do to them, so that every one may turn from his evil way, and that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin. (Jeremiah 36:3)

Obedience can make atonement

For I desire goodness, not sacrifice;
Obedience to God, rather than burnt offerings. (Hosea 6:6)

As this last example shows, not only did God say that the other methods were acceptable, but that the blood sacrifices were not necessary. Man's sincere repentance did not require that he sacrifice when not able to do so.

If you offer Me burnt offerings--or your meal offerings--
I will not accept them;
I will pay no heed
To your gifts of fatlings.
Spare me the sound of your hymns,
And let Me not hear the music of your lutes.
But let justice well up like water,
Righteousness like an unfailing stream.
Did you offer sacrifice and oblation to Me
Those forty years in the wilderness,
O House of Israel? (Amos 5:22-25)

With what shall I come before the LORD,
and bow myself before God on high?
Shall I come before him with burnt offerings,
with calves a year old?
Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams,
with ten thousands of rivers of oil?
Shall I give my first-born for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?"

He has showed you, O man, what is good;
and what does the LORD require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God? (Micah 6:6-8)

Sacrifice and offering thou dost not desire;
but thou hast given me an open ear.
Burnt offering and sin offering
thou hast not required. (Psalm 40:7)

The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. (Psalm 51:17)

I will praise the name of God with a song;
I will magnify him with thanksgiving.
This will please the LORD more than an ox
or a bull with horns and hoofs. (Psalm 69:30-31)

Take words with you
And return to the Lord.
Say to Him:
"Forgive all guilt
And accept what is good;
Instead of bulls we will pay
The offering of our lips. (Hosea 14:3)

The 'offering of our lips', prayer, is now the only sacrifice, and one of the primary means of atonement, that Jews now make to God. In addition to Hosea 14:3 and Numbers 14:19-20, we find:

The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD,
but the prayer of the upright is his delight. (Proverbs 15:8)

if they repent with all their mind and with all their heart in the land of their enemies, who carried them captive, and pray to thee toward their land, which thou gavest to their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name;
then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place their prayer and their supplication, and maintain their cause
and forgive thy people who have sinned against thee, and all their transgressions which they have committed against thee; (1 Kings 8:48-50)

And the people of Israel said to the LORD, "We have sinned; do to us whatever seems good to thee; only deliver us, we pray thee, this day."
So they put away the foreign gods from among them and served the LORD; and he became indignant over the misery of Israel. (Judges 10:15-16)

When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command the locust to devour the land, or send pestilence among my people,
if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land. (2 Chronicles 7:13-14)