Posted on 01/17/2002 5:35:50 AM PST by Israel
Recently, as a result of an article I posted, I was asked to comment on a recent event wherein a Hebrew teacher in a Jewish school in Israel burned a copy of the New Testament given to a 6th grade student by a Christian missionary. Clearly, it was wrong to burn the Bible of another's religion. However, to be fair, it was equally wrong to gift such a book to an impressionable Jewish youngster. The book burning will, no doubt, sort itself out but, the matter of Christian missionaries trying to convert Jews to some sect of Christianity remains a problem.
To convert a Jew to another religion plainly states that the all-seeing G-d was wrong in selecting the Jewish people to serve him. Most, if not all, religions agree that G-d is perceived to be clear-minded about the future all the way into what is called the 'End of Times'. Therefore, He knew the Jewish people would ebb and flow in their mission. He allowed the Jewish Prophets to glimpse the future so that they could issue warnings for the people and their Kings to mend their ways and stay steady on the path intended as a "light unto the nations".
Sometimes they succeeded and sometimes they failed but, either way, G-d was not unaware of these lapses yet to be. The successes and failures were both well documented in the Hebrew Bible, the first five books of Moses as given by G-d to Moses on Mt. Sinai. There was no attempt to hide the weaknesses (or the strengths) of Jewish leaders and these failures were held out as a lesson for future generations. Men are not angels although in different ages a handful have reached the level of Tzadikim (righteous ones).
There are other religions whose level of expectations was to minimally accept the seven Noahide laws which have indeed marked the progress of Christianity. One can reach higher and adopt more advanced levels of behavior but, too often religion has been used as an excuse to persecute, torture and even destroy "the other" of different religions. Domination via conquest of others was always viewed as a sign in primitive thought that their god was more powerful and theirs was the only correct god to follow. Regrettably, that belief seems to prevail even today as exemplified by our struggle in Afghanistan and the Middle East. It is ramping up even now between India and Pakistan.
The Jews were not instructed to proselytize or press other religions into accepting the Jewish 10 Commandments plus the additional 603 'Mitzvot' (rules of conduct) which the Jews had accepted to live by. They were merely to be servants to HaShem (lit. "The Name" of G-d) and, in doing so, to be a light (example) unto the nations. Granted, they (we) failed frequently and were duly punished for our inability to stay the course. Jews were also not instructed to tell those of other religions that they too were able to cross the threshold of entering the Covenant given to the Jews IF they adopted the laws of Torah.
However, it was not up to men who chose other pathways to G-d to instruct the Jewish people in the belief that G-d had made a mistake in selecting them for this difficult mission. It is understandable that the evolvers of new religions wished their followers to worship in their own ways. It is NOT understandable for them to presume that G-d was mistaken in putting the burden or privilege of servitude on the Jewish people. Moreover, not having spoken directly with G-d as did Noah, Abraham, Moses, how is it possible to challenge or to correct G-d's pronounced judgement in the Torah from these ancient Prophets?
Within the Roman Catholic Church it is believed that the Pope is infallible. Can the one G-d be less so? Can mankind presume to fathom G-d's Mind, Plans and His Vision through all infinite eternity and conclude that He was in error? The hubris of men, to presume to probe the Mind or Intentions of G-d - who rules billions of galaxies out into infinite space - beyond what He has said to do, is presumptuous.
Is it right and proper for various Christian sects who surely believe in their G-d then to come to Jewish youngsters and, in effect, tell them that their Jewish history, their destiny was NOT pre-ordained but the Christian version is? That G-d has changed his mind because He did not or could not see the future. Can anyone say to the Jewish people that "it is our destiny to replace you because, in our opinion, you have failed your mission and G-d's judgment was misplaced"?
The Jewish people are deeply familiar with book burning. During the Church-inspired Inquisition, Torah parchment scrolls were wrapped around rabbis and those who refused forced conversion to Christianity and then set on fire. The parchment was dampened with water so the Jewish victim being burned at the stake would burn to death more slowly and have the opportunity to repent his stubborn dedication to G-d's Covenant and accept conversion.
We recall Hitler's thugs confiscating Jewish holy books and scrolls, using them to create huge bonfires. Later, they burned knowledgeable Jews in the Krupp ovens - with children often thrown in alive. Neither the Catholic Church nor Islam protested. In fact, the world remained curiously silent. Here the motive was not conversion but disposal of a people who would always remain Jewish.
The surge of radical religions has an unhappy past. The Christian Crusades swept through Europe and the Holy Land, killing everyone in their path always proclaiming this was being done in G-d's Name. Christianity raged at that time - certain they were doing G-d's work. Had they actually received G-d's Word or was this merely the zealous imagination of self-anointed clerics thwarted in their self-appointed mission?
Similarly, the Muslim nations surged back against the Crusaders, imposing Islam on the Holy Land and into Spain and France. They also believed that conversion by the sword was what Allah would applaud. Each in their time of glorious conquest demanded obedience to their gods as did the earlier Romans.
Now, in the present, we see Christians being driven out of most Arab and Muslim-dominated countries. They would be allowed to stay IF they accepted conversion to Islam and the correct pathway to their G-d who the Muslims called Allah. This same formula would, of course, apply to the Jewish nation as it always has down through the centuries.
Pursuing other religions with the intent to convert them by aggression or stealth is a sure fire way to inspire hatred and war. Is it not passing strange that down through the ages first Christianity and later Islam sought to meld the lineage of the Jewish tribe of Abraham through conversion with their growing religions even as they proclaimed the Jew had failed the Covenant G-d gave them? Is it possible to dismiss and demonize a people and yet still claim to be the correct heir to their heritage back to their first conversations with G-d?
A Hebrew teacher in Israel, protecting his students from what he considered undue dangerous influence of missionaries using a New Testament book drafted in the Hebrew Language as a tool of conversion, chose the wrong response. He should have visited the school or offices of that Christian sect and returned the book with a public protest.
I have often thought that it would be right and proper for Jewish students, knowledgeable in Torah law, to gather around those who come to proselytize and provide them with an education of why a Jew follows HaShem's laws of instruction in how to lead his life. They must be reminded that HaShem (G-d) had specifically instructed the Jews that: "There shall be no other G-d before Me." Shall a Jew leave G-d's Covenant and break his obligation to the one G-d who revealed Himself to the Jewish people? Has the lesson been forgotten wherein Eve was seduced to break G-d's instructions, resulting in great punishment for all?
Shall we listen to creative men advocating their religions because they can finesse language and thought so they are entirely convincing to others? Perhaps it would be better if they choose as their opponent the G-d who made the rules. I grant you that may be difficult, since G-d seems to have stopped talking to us humans in voice or even through Prophets.
However, if He spoke to us once, perhaps he will do so again. Until that time, wherein He comes to judge us and issues rulings, I think the effort to convert Jews to other ways should be put aside. Presently, we have the Ten Commandments, included in the 613 Mitzvot, and the ethical/moral judgement of wise men who instruct us to treat each other with respect. That is sufficient for now. We are not, however, unaware of the assistance our Christian friends have given Israel during its difficult times and for this we thank you. We understand your efforts to save us are according to your beliefs.
As for the material actually given to the Jewish youths for the purposes of conversion, simply gather it up and return it to the entrance of the institution from whence it came.
I'm sure this is why the practice of Judaism is dying. If one religion is just as good as another, why follow all those rules?
How you worship God--and what God you worship, is important, quite different than merely differences in occupation... the road one follows leads to eternity.
I would be interested in a list of scriputres that are in the Christian OT ,but not in the Jewish scripture
Not according to the Rabbi's. Many call me a Noachide. I am not a Jew, but my actions prompt this statement a lot. There are a few Christians I know of that converted to Judaism. They live in the MeaSharem area. They are considered not noachides, but Jews in the full sense of the word. It took a few years with their Rabbi's to earn the title. They are ultra orthodox now.
On the contrary, I specifically addressed this. Go back and look again.
You're right, you did address this, even though of course I think your interpretation is incorrect. Knowing the Old Testament however, and how central blood sacrifice was, I don't think you adequately addressed atonement... Long before the Temple, the Tabernacle was vital, along with blood sacrifice, for atoning for the people's sins, and what keeps the Tabernacle from being built again, even though the Temple (at this time) cannot be built? Any reader of the Old Testament can understand how central blood sacrifice was--from Abel on, every righteous figure who was able to practiced it...although sincerity of heart shown by obedience and love is more evidence of true faith in God--vividly illustrated in your post. Still, if I were a sincere Jew, I'd be very on edge knowing THE central part of biblical worship was no longer...
As I said before, I'm glad I'm protected by blood sacrifice....
The vast number of the passages you cite are not 'predictions' or prophecies at all. They are ordinary statements removed from context. Why are there so many? Because Christians have combed through the Hebrew scriptures looking for any passage at all that they could somehow link to Jesus. Are you familiar with modern literary theory? Christianity is a deconstruction of the text of the Tanakh. You do not read the Hebrew scriptures on its own terms; rather, you read it through Christian spectacles, and then find Jesus everywhere. You are adding meaning to it, not deriving meaning from it. Just as marxist literary theorists read Shakespeare and see class struggle, and feminist literary theorists read Shakespeare and find an oppressive male hierarchy.
From your easy dismissal of the evidence, I suspect you really haven't examined it. Sorry, that's just how it sounds.
You would be wrong. My father is Christian, and my mother is Jewish. I was raised as a Christian, and did not return to the religion of my ancestors until I was an adult. I am quite familiar with the works of Christian apologists from the early church fathers to modern writers such as C.S. Lewis, Peter Kreeft, Josh Macdowell, Lee Strobel, William Lane Craig, et. al. It was my reading of the Hebrew scriptures which convinced me that Jesus could not be the messiah.
I offer a link to a video (from an old thread) on it for any that have time to watch it..
Who, me? ;o)
I beleive He is coming soon. All the signs needed for His return are in place as we speak, so He could come any day now.
Interesting. Didn't the first generation of disciples believe the same thing?
You've really hit the nail right on the head there....
FMCDH
Good points. The Apostle Paul tells us that the true Israel are those who believe in Christ (Rom. 9). Also, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:28).
Just like many Protestants believe Catholics are idol worshippers, so do many Jews believe all Christians are idol worshippers. To them Christians are worshipping a corpse, a piece of dead meat, dried bones. Sorry to be blunt, but that is how it is. It's one of those things nobody wants to talk about. We'd rather talk about how we're all one big Judeo-Christian religion. It's strange that we can discuss the Protestant/Catholic split on this issue, but never the Jewish/Christian split.
But you also turned your back on the religion of your ancestors.
I was raised in an Orthodox Jewish home, and educated for 12 years in Orthodox Jewish schools, and I never heard such a thing said.
Jews and Christians both worship God the Father. Christians, however, believe that God's nature is triune and that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the other two persons in the divine being. You might say that we both worship the same being, but differ as to the number of divine 'persons',.
Which passage of scripture was that? Every one of the 4 major prophesies of the Messiah are also understood by Christians as applying to the 2nd Coming.... Who was Jesus anyway?
Also, you have at least an equal possibility that multiple generations of rabbis have carefully interpreted every verse pointing to Jesus specifically as not pointing to Him. I think Judaism has almost a bigger stake in trying to disprove Jesus than Christianity does in trying to prove Him from prophesy.
Jesus proved Himself by ressurection...and nearly all His disciples maintained that fact through lives of great hardship, imprisonment, etc. up into torturous deaths... Why would these formerly cowardly guys act this way for a deception?
You must be familiar with C. S. Lewis's formula (restating Augustine I believe) of Liar, Lunatic or Lord... Given the statements of Jesus, He couldn't just be a good teacher or a prophet, if He wasn't Messiah, he MUST be either the world's greatest fraud.... or a blathering lunatic. And please don't try to say Jesus' early followers put words into his mouth by altering the New Testament--there is simply no evidence for that.
It all depends on how you look at it. When I was a Christian, to the Jews I was an apostate. Now that I follow Judaism, to the Christians I am an apostate. Oh well, you can't please everybody!
I've always assumed the '-' is put in there to avoid some blasphemy of God.
Unless I'm wrong -- If God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent does God really not know what the'-' is in "G-d"?
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