Posted on 01/09/2002 7:29:19 AM PST by truthandlife
Pornography – the written and/or graphically portrayed uncovering of nakedness, especially in acts of fornication – grips the hearts and lives of many Christian men and, according to recent surveys, twenty percent of ministers. It tempts potential patrons from its store shelves and by mail, and it champions over three million websites, enticing over twenty percent of online viewers.
Porn appeals to an undisciplined culture (both inside and outside the church) that refuses to mature mentally and sexually. Specifically, many Christian men of all ages find it easier to view porn than to fulfill their God-given responsibilities to glorify their Lord and to love their spouses, their children, their estates, and their congregations.
As Christians, we would expect unregenerate men, who are in bondage to the sin of their Adamic nature, to embrace no conviction against viewing pornography. These men, as are all men before coming to Christ, are corrupt by nature and in need of spiritual rebirth, needing to call upon Christ Jesus for salvation. These men will only curtail or cease viewing porn when they are threatened civically (being jailed or imprisoned), professionally (getting fired), or domestically (being sued for divorce).
To the Christian, porn appeals to the workings of sin in the flesh (Rom. 7:23) that must yet be submitted to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. It is unbiblical for the world or the church to think that a Christian cannot be tempted to view and to succumb to the viewing of porn during a time or times of weakness. Yet, having yielded to the beguiling temptation of viewing porn, the Christian must realize, as spoken by Christ Jesus, that he has sinned by committing fornication (in the case of the unmarried) or adultery (in the case of the married) in the heart – sins which Jesus says will deprive one of eternal life.
For the Christian minister, porn can be alluring as he manages his pressures to serve others, his solitary work environment, his mental exhaustion, and perhaps, his frustrations resulting from his entering the ministry as a novice not fully disciple himself. If he also has relationship and sexual difficulties at home, then porn becomes for him an easy, seemingly victimless escape. However, when he views porn, he jeopardizes the ministry that his God has entrusted to him. 1 Timothy 3:4-5 is clear that the minister’s household must be in order for him to retain his ministry, and, thus, his admitting his habitual porn use exposes problems in his own household, which he must correct lest he be ministerially disqualified. Often, the tremendous guilt that follows is difficult to jettison because the minister is supposedly required to be not only “perfect” but is also forbidden to confess his faults to his brethren (contrary to James 5:16), which would aid in his repentance and restoration.
All Christians: Shall you risk bringing reproach upon the name of our Lord Jesus for a season of lust-filled escape? Shall you risk destroying your own Christian reputations, marriages, families, and estates? Shall you risk jail or prison to fulfill your potentially illegal lusts before calling upon the name of our Lord to save you from yourselves? Do you realize that your viewing Internet porn can be and most likely is being monitored, if not by your bosses at work, then potentially by credit card companies and by porn sites themselves? Furthermore, have you considered that the hardness of your heart and your refusal to repent of this sin may prove indeed that you are no Christian at all, and are, therefore, in danger of eternal damnation? “I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?” (Job 31:1).
Never forget that all men will eventually appear before the judgment seat of Christ to give an account for the deeds done in this life. We, therefore, strongly urge both Christians and non-Christians to repent of this heinous sin and to beg God’s gracious pardon. Christians, if you confess your sin, God is faithful and just to forgive you of your sin. Get rid of your porn regardless of its form or format. Don’t place yourself in a position to view porn. Don’t allow your mind to be idle and filled with pornographic fantasies and thoughts. On the contrary, plan to stay mentally active and to replace pornographic thoughts with pure, holy, and natural thoughts (see Philippians 4:8). Pray for God’s grace to deliver you from the desire to view porn for His name’s sake. Pursue spiritual maturity and love (toward your wife, your children, your church, and your Lord) instead of gratifying your selfish, sinful desires.
Those of you who are spiritual are to restore, with a spirit of meekness, those who have fallen into this sin lest you also be tempted. God will forgive the sins of those who truly repent and turn from their sin.
See that's what folks like you just can't understand. Some people can drink one beer and be done, others are compulsive. Some people can have Playboy mailed to the once a month and have their naked woman other than wife fix covered until the next issue (maybe a touch up halfway inbetween from the website), others spend all day every day DLing the stuff. But you don't get that, or you just don't care. You're the modern version of the axe wielding maniacs in the "temperance" movement 100 years ago: crazy, full of it, and completely convinced that every half baked opinion in your head is absolutely true and above question or analysis.
Yeah, the Big I.
What would you be without it?
Grrr. BE FIERCE (sp?).
I care about the big picture. I remember reading that porn was the fastest growth industry for female employees and had gone wall street, and that is the formal legitimate side of the industry.
So much oppression,
Can't keep track of it no more.
Sons becoming husbands to their mothers,
And old men turning young daughters into whores.
The Porn empire is growing and the spice must flow.
That is a threat to all parents or people of honour.
Not true the bots are everywhere try (Ad-Aware 5.62)
For you porn is on that list. That's AOK cause it's your life and you should lead it your way. But it isn't for everyone. Some folks would never do porn but are consumers, again that OK with not one bit of hypocrisy, most of us own cars but have no urge to work in any part of the industries that make or support cars. Some folks have no problem working in porn. Some people probably preferred not to get into porn but that's how life worked, kind of like how I never meant to wind up in fastfood; it's sad and I hope they manage to get out but that's how life is sometimes you wind up in a sucky job.
It's no more of a prison or trap than any other crappy job, probably less of one because of the short hours and long pay. It's a lot easier for a porn star to afford and schedule classes than it is for a burger flipper. A lot of people wind up in it, and wind up stuck in it, because of what they want to do. Most porn stars want to be "legit" movie stars. It's hard jump, much easier to jump from porn to some completely nonentertainment oriented business, but that's not what they want. The lure of fame and fortune is what got them into porn in the first place and it's what will keep them in it if they can't make the jump to legit entertainment. That's nobody's fault but theirs and I won't be sympathetic.
But in the end it's a job. Kind of a wierd job but if you actually stopped and made a list of all the ways people can earn a living I think you'd find there are more "wierd" jobs than "normal". The big difference between this job and any other crappy job that's abnormal is that YOU think this job is evil. That's not my problem, and it's not the problem of the people that work in porn, it's your problem. And I say it's your problem because it is your opinion, kind of like if you didn't like the color of my kitchen is your opinion and your problem. They're the ones who have to live with the decision they made, and it's pretty unlikely that your opinions matter much to them.
Yep, you would rather have your children work in porn than flip burgers.
I'd say that sums up the contrast between us as human beings rather succinctly.
They are misguided, not evil. And I would strongly suspect that they come from bad cicumstances. I think a little compassion is OK in this case.
God helps those who help themselves.....
Where is this written? And speaking of God, how do you think Jesus would feel about it?
I've been reading this thread and waiting for somebody to make this observation. Many people join organized religion because they seek validation from others. They have low self-esteem, low confidence, insecurity, and they're seeking for acceptance from others. They believe that if they go out of their way to let everyone know that they're a Christian, make frequent references to Jesus, speak in esoteric phrases, and type "He" and "Him" instead of "he" and "him", that it somehow makes them Christian. I think they're more concerned with being acceptead as a Christian in the eyes of their peers than they are being accepted by their god.
These sorts of people are easy to spot. They're precisely the ones OWK is talking about - the spiteful, scornful, finger-pointing, mocking, bitter, self-righteous do-gooders. They enjoy watching others suffer because it fills them with gratification and makes their own pathetic lives seem less unpleasant in comparison. They hide behind a veil of religiosity and use it to justify their behavior ["I'm doing as He commands!"]. They are nothing but frauds and phonies and are truely big losers. It is the duty of every real Christian to expose them and denounce them as such.
Of course. Society is composed of individuals, and it is objectively immoral for individuals to copulate on film, just as it is immoral for individuals to copulate in public.
And should subsequently use force to prevent and punish it?
In principle, there is no difference between copulating in the public square and copulating on film. The immorality of both acts is clear. And we rightly use force to restrain people from copulating in public or punish them after the fact.
Then should pornography be criminalized? Certainly, there is no reason in principle why pornography cannot be criminalized, since it is objectively evil. In practice, one must balance the harm caused by pornography against the harm caused by the criminalization of pornography. The situation is analogous to the war on drugs.
But there is certainly no reason in principle why pornography should not be criminalized.
Porn films will be purchased and viewed only by those who consent to viewing the copulation; sex in the public square would likely be seen by unwilling participants. There's your difference.
You: If (by your definition)copulating on film constitutes public copulation, then you actually know of plenty of societies (ours included) that accept public copulation, since such films are not illegal in those societies.
In other words, you may want to rethink your definition...
OK, how about this: "And I don't know of any society that accepts public copulation. And copulating on film constitutes public copulation in principle."
While it is easy for most people to see that copulating in the town square is immoral, it is harder for some people to see that copulating on film is similarly immoral.
Let's examine the first case. The primary concern is for children who may witness the act. The secondary concern is for adults, whose sexual desires were created to be directed toward their spouse. The images that would be involuntarily stored in the mind would harm the spousal relationship to varying degrees indefinitely. Thirdly, there is the chance that witnessing such acts would dispose some viewers to sexual preoccupation and ultimately rape or violence.
The same objections hold true for pornography or, specifically in this case, copulating on film. The primary concern is for children who may come across it or who may be forced to view it. The secondary concern is for adults, whose sexual desires were created to be directed toward their spouse. The images that would be voluntarily stored in the mind would harm the spousal relationship to varying degrees indefinitely. Thirdly, there is the chance that witnessing such acts would dispose some viewers to sexual preoccupation and ultimately rape or violence.
That's generally true. But the viewers and participants (and those who come in contact with them) in both cases are harmed regardless of their willingness to participate.
Additionally, some people (especially children) will be exposed unwillingly. My childhood friends had no trouble finding their parents stashes. And I had one friend whose uncle gave him Playboy when he was around the age of eleven or twelve.
I disagree completely.
In a free society, the state's only legitimate role is the defense of the rights of individuals.
Assuming only consenting adults are involved, the choice of one individual to capture images of another unclothed individual on film, and to later view those images, does not violate anyone's rights.
Hence, the state has no authority to initiate force in restraint of such activity.
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