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[PleaseReadBeforeJudging] Why Only Catholicism Can Make Protestantism Work: Bouyer on Reformation
Catholic Dossier/ CERC ^ | MARK BRUMLEY

Posted on 01/05/2002 11:55:52 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM

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To: patent
pro-Catholic bump
41 posted on 01/05/2002 3:37:08 PM PST by dansangel
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To: RaceBannon
Serious question...What does happen to a child that dies? No one has ever pointed me to a direct scripture that says 'They go automatically to heaven'.
42 posted on 01/05/2002 3:40:34 PM PST by constitutiongirl
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To: proud2bRC
An well-written and interesting framework of theology and history during and since. Thanks for posting it.
43 posted on 01/05/2002 3:43:31 PM PST by D-fendr
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To: Dynamo
Where does the Bible mention the words Trinity or Incarnation? I take it you have no defense to mount against those passages of Scripture I've posted that prove you wrong.

praying to the saints

Ephesians 6:18 "By all prayer and supplication praying at all times in the spirit; and in the same watching with all instance and supplication for all the saints."

44 posted on 01/05/2002 3:43:57 PM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: constitutiongirl
I believe that the Church teaching is that it only says that cannonized saints (there are of course more saints that are not) go to heaven. I should carefully point out that it does not say no one else does, it says the contrary in the communion of saints - the Church Suffering is comprised of those destined for heaven but who were not saints (canonized or not).

But other than those canonized, the Church does not claim to know which are destined for heaven and which are not. As to unbaptized children, I believe the Church does not say one way or the other, though I remember some teaching that includes a merciful and just God. Also, if the child is not of age to make informed decisions, then their ability to commit sin is also debatable.

So, to say "the Church teaches that unbaptized children who die go to hell" is an error.

45 posted on 01/05/2002 3:54:03 PM PST by D-fendr
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To: RaceBannon
This is what the Roman Catholic Church teaches with regard to infant baptism:

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"[63] allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

1283 With respect to children who have died without Baptism, the liturgy of the Church invites us to trust in God's mercy and to pray for their salvation.

[63] Mark 10:14 "Whom when Jesus saw, he was much displeased, and saith to them: Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God."
1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Additionally Luke 18:15-17 "And they brought unto him also infants, that he might touch them. Which when the disciples saw, they rebuked them. But Jesus, calling them together said: Suffer children to come to me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Amen, I say to you: Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a child, shall not enter it."

Colossians 2:11-12 "In whom also you are circumcised with circumcision not made by hand, in despoiling of the body of the flesh, but in the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, in whom also you are risen again by the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him up from the dead."

46 posted on 01/05/2002 4:18:22 PM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: Dynamo
Christ left us his Word... God's word, in the Holy Bible.

Can you tell me what part of Scripture details Christ handing the Holy Bible to His apostles? Weren't they surpised to find in the Holy Bible that Christ left them all of the things that they were going to be doing in the near future? I'm not familiar with that part of the Scripture. Thanks ahead of time.

47 posted on 01/05/2002 4:20:40 PM PST by Proud2BAmerican
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To: D-fendr
Thank you for your thoughful response.
48 posted on 01/05/2002 4:24:51 PM PST by constitutiongirl
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To: proud2bRC
bump
49 posted on 01/05/2002 4:27:56 PM PST by grumpster-dumpster
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To: sinkspur
Thanks sink. Did we expect any less? Dansangel made a good summary:

Had the same article been written by a Protestant, there would be a lack of "protestant-bashing" by the Catholic side.

As I have noted repeatedly, in the middle ages the devil was represented by a rabid dog chasing/biting its own tail. Readers can see for themselves the fruits of the various trees growing on FR.

And we're not called to be successful. We're only called to be faithful.

50 posted on 01/05/2002 4:34:20 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dynamo
Even the Gnostics (1st John) knew how to take small portions of scripture and use it to attempt to distort God's Word.

Which is exactly what you have done with regard to repetitious prayer, confession, graven images and the Blessed Virgin Mary. Pot, kettle, black. If your parents paid for you to have a Catholic education when you were a child, they should seek a refund.

51 posted on 01/05/2002 4:37:04 PM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

To: Proud2bRC; EODGUY
bttt

=)

53 posted on 01/05/2002 4:43:13 PM PST by JMJ333
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To: Dynamo
BS
54 posted on 01/05/2002 4:52:48 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: proud2bRC
This is the stupidest piece of lies and trash...
55 posted on 01/05/2002 4:54:27 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER;proud2bRC
Thank you for a terrific and informative read!

I see the usual suspects are gathering for a bash! :)
The way some of these folks think just amazes me!

Personally I think we are going about the defense of our faith in the wrong way. We allow the C-B's (Catholic Bashers) to control the conversation, when we rise up to take their challenge. Or, perhaps a better way to put it is that the C-B's demand that We Justiy Our Faith to Them. We should be asking them to Justiy Their Faith to Us!

56 posted on 01/05/2002 4:56:48 PM PST by grumpster-dumpster
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To: dansangel
Whatever. Unless you can give Scriptural evidence, I will take this as something you can not substantiate. The Calvinists are the true Reformed people taht have kept all the Reformation tenets. It is absolute stupidity to claim the Catholic church believes them.
57 posted on 01/05/2002 4:58:15 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
Your post is so funny I can't contain my enjoyment with your idiocy.
58 posted on 01/05/2002 5:02:43 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: rwfromkansas
"Whatever."

Great reply.

Keep reading. The basis in scripture is further down. I just love it when people jump on the bandwagon without thoroughly reading responses.

59 posted on 01/05/2002 5:03:51 PM PST by dansangel
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To: proud2bRC
Yeah, the CAtholic church's killing of the Huegenots and millions of others was just filled with the Holy Spirit.
60 posted on 01/05/2002 5:05:01 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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