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To: discostu
I'm not -- and couldn't possibly -- negate the very real aspect that is the interpersonal penetration of two souls. It doesn't get much closer than that.

"Love" and "Life" are the two essential aspects of conjugal love. <>P With the exception of strictly casual, animal copulation enabled and encouraged by our secular society and federal government (as a means to pre-empt the bonds and sovereignty that are a marriage and family's due), sex is a magnificent and most pleasurable means of expressing love for another.

But the purely objective and natural result of sex is procreation. Contraception not only degrades the act by removing its essential potency, it precludes the conjugal act from fulfilling its essential nature of total self-giving and receiving.

Stripped of their natural dignity and potency -- and, most of all, their sovereignty that is Self-Mastery -- men and women dumb themselves down.

By the use of contraceptives, they not only reject Life loud and clear -- seeking to plan it and partake of it only on their own terms -- they transfer the natural dominion of man over things and animals to Themselves. They manipulate themselves by negating their essential potency as co-creators.

Take a look around you ... the evidence of our degradation (particularly that of women) abounds.

This concerted and constant abuse of the will to degrade and manipulate the Self conditions us to further manipulation by the same State who imposed contraception on us ... by first seeking to eradicate Undesirables.

"Freedom" does not consist in rendering one's choices moot of consequence. The greater part of freedom is sometimes restraint. We are no longer a free people. We were doomed the moment we caved to the Sexual Revolution which rendered us little more than prize pigs at the State Fair only too happy to rut at will and call it "liberation" because our sexual relations no longer entailed real Obligations to each other or threatened the introduction of a New Life which was not expressly wanted, Genetically Perfect and -- by all means -- Economically Feasible.

230 posted on 01/02/2002 2:13:47 PM PST by Askel5
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To: Askel5
Interesting. I've never seen anyone lay it out that way (both lucid and not insulting, usually it's the later part that people fail at). I can't say that I agree, but I can understand.

As for our society our views are a little different. While certainly things are troubled, especially in the areas of sex and sexuality, there has been a rather natural cycle of society in history. The pendulum swings back and forth every couple hundred years between emotionless animal lust and absolute prudishness on all levels. The round trip is usually about 300 years give or take. We never seem to be able to stop at the happy medium (which we were in for the WWII years and those surounding, where sex is fun and all but everybody knows it's at its best in a relationship built to last), momentum in one direction or the other always pushes us too far. This cycle has been going on for a long time (at least back to Pompeii) and I've learned not to sweat it.

239 posted on 01/02/2002 2:37:47 PM PST by discostu
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To: Askel5
Contraception not only degrades the act by removing its essential potency, it precludes the conjugal act from fulfilling its essential nature of total self-giving and receiving.

A happy and haply providential correspondence with that other three-way relationship that "disrupts the 'you-me' construct by introducing a third element: one that opens onto the 'we' of authentic communion, in which each person can flourish. The 'I' is no longer affirmed over against the 'you'; it is affirmed, rather, through sharing whatever is unique in each one." (pp.203-5)

266 posted on 01/02/2002 8:35:35 PM PST by Romulus
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Love is ... life without the pitter-patter of tiny feet

What a contrast to this Galway Kinnell poem:


"After Making Love We Hear Footsteps"

For I can snore like a bullhorn
or play loud music
or sit up talking with any reasonably sober Irishman
and Fergus will only sink deeper
into his dreamless sleep, which goes by all in one
  flash,
but let there be that heavy breathing
or a stifled come-cry anywhere in the house
and he will wrench himself awake
and make for it on the run -- as now, we lie together,
after making love, quiet, touching along the length of
  our bodies,
familiar touch of the long-married,
and he appears -- in his baseball pajamas, it happens,
the neck opening so small he has to screw them on --
and flops down between us and hugs us and snuggles
  himself to sleep,
his face gleaming with satisfaction at being this very child.

In the half darkness we look at each other
and smile
and touch arms across this little, startingly muscled
  body --
this one whom habit of memory propels to the ground
  of his making,
sleeper only the mortal sounds can sing awake,
this blessing love gives again into our arms.



267 posted on 01/02/2002 10:35:04 PM PST by Dumb_Ox
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To: Askel5
they not only reject Life loud and clear -- seeking to plan it and partake of it only on their own terms

This has got to be one of the silliest statements I've ever read on FR. It is the essential nature of sapient humanity to plan and partake of life on man's own terms -- that's why man lives in houses instead of caves.

277 posted on 01/03/2002 5:37:27 AM PST by steve-b
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To: Askel5
"Freedom" does not consist in rendering one's choices moot of consequence.

On the contrary, taking steps to avoid possible consequences is another result of human intelligence. Prudent people choose to use cars -- and seat belts.

278 posted on 01/03/2002 5:44:48 AM PST by steve-b
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