Posted on 12/30/2001 9:36:17 AM PST by Demidog
Arguments over Israel and support of Israel are extremely contentious.
Support for Israel runs the gambit from those who support them, to the extent of wanting them to be an extension of the U.S. in the middle east, to those who are anti-Semitic and would like to see Israel destroyed.
Of course there is some middle ground, but in general the arguments about how the U.S. should treat Israel in the context of our broader foreign policy decisions is generally framed with opponents accusing each other of one extreme end of the spectrum or the other.
Hidden amongst the rhetorical rubble of these combative arguments, is the unanswered question which I believe is the core issue regarding Israel and U.S:
Who gets to decide the fate of Israel?
Is it Israel? Or is it the foerign policy wonks of the U.S. who are more interested in U.S. interests than those of Israel?
Staunch supporters of Israel would like to have their cake and eat it too. They would like the U.S. to continue to send billions in foreign and military aid, and yet butt out of Israel's own foreign policy decisions. Those on the opposite end probably want the same cake: U.S. support ceases and is over-run by her enemies.
If Israel lobs a missile or plants a booby trap that kills Palestinian children, the arguments flare up again and those who do not support Israel (like the so-called "Amen-Corner") perceive such incidents as license to condemn Israel and question U.S. support. While the "Amen-Corner" fights tooth and nail sometimes even ignores real attrocities or blames the victims of those attrocities in order to keep the pressure on to continue aid to Israel.
But it's a losing proposition for both sides.
Those who support Israel to the extreme do not get what they want because U.S. foreign policy is not concerned at all with what is in the best interests of Israel. It is concerned with U.S. interests. And those who do not support Israel (for whatever reason) do not have a choice. They must support Israel because they cannot direct their tax dollars away from Israel.
The money and aid that the U.S. sends to Israel has strings attached like all welfare programs foreign or domestic. Israel will never get to fully direct its own foreign policy as long as it is required to cowtow to U.S. demands. And it will always have to cowtow to U.S. demands as long as the U.S. government is providing the aid.
The right thing for Israel to do, if it is interested in becoming truly independent is to reject that aid. But this is easier stated than put into action.
Israel could no more reject American aid than a heroin addict could stare at a fresh fix and walk away.
The relationship between Israel and the U.S. is viewed by some as necessary to bring stability to the middle east. But the relationship is not healthy. It is marred, and more resembles a pimp/hooker relationship than two friends who are trying to help each other.
I have said on more than one occasion that our support of Israel is not moral. But this is not quite accurate. It isn't the support itself that is immoral. It is the forced nature of the support that is immoral combined with the U.S.'s insistence that control be associated with that support.
Those Americans that do not wish to support Israel should not have to do so. Just like none of us should have to support a family with our labor via Section 8, welfare programs or public schools, we should also not have to support another nation against our will.
Those who wish to support Israel with their taxes should be allowed to send as much as they wish. And I would venture a guess that the support Israel received from private citizens would far surpass what is given now (12 dollars or so per taxpayer).
And furthermore, how much sense does it make for the U.S. to send aid to both Israel and the Palestinians or Jordanians or other potential enemies of Israel against the wishes of those who support Israel?
It doesn't at all. That is why we must stop foreign aid to Israel and leave it in the hands of our private citizens. Of course, combined with this must also be the end of the Income tax. Ending the Income Tax would free the American people to support whomever they wished, foreign or domestic, without strings and without government control.
Since when is the U.S. as a nation qualified or even authorized to decide what is best for any nation other than the U.S.?
Since.....never.
And the added benefit to such a solution is the immediate calming of the rhetoric and the elimination the perceived problem with those of us who want an end to U.S. managed support of Israel: coersion.
There is nothing wrong with supporting Israel. It should not be forced at the point of a gun.
I believe that there is one here at FR in particular called "Ashcroft detains Jews."
I guess that would mean that something published at AFP was in fact true eh? Interesting.
You're a liar.
You don't seem to understand the distress of the Palestinnans do you? You think that your picture of a child strapped with TNT displays your point? Your picture shows that some people are willing to die for their rights.
So Shotgunrider - how is Carto today? Howling at the moon? Had his colon cure? Visited that Satan thing? Have to trundle over and see what's jumping in that particular zoo of yours. Ooops.. didn't mean to call it a zoo, of course. The reptile cage ;).
So Shotgunrider - how is Carto today? Howling at the moon? Had his colon cure? Visited that Satan thing? Have to trundle over and see what's jumping in that particular zoo of yours. Ooops.. didn't mean to call it a zoo, of course. The reptile cage ;).
I repeat: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/589096/posts?q=1&&page=401.
To: Cachelot
In the Oct. 1st issue of AFP,it was reported that five 'middle eastern men' had been arrested after being reported 'laughing and taking pictures of the burning towers from atop a moving van'. According to AFP these men were actually Israeli's, carrying $4,000 in cash, multiple fake passports and boxcutters. Three weeks later, that report also appeared in the New York Times, page F3. Much to your dismay, this news is beginning to dribble out now that the five have been released and sent back home, although hundreds of Arabs still languish in American jails for the crime of having overstayed their visas. Equal justice? Incidentally, news of these five fellas was also printed in Israel's news papers. Are they nazis, too?
439 posted on 12/15/01 2:11 PM Pacific by Ridin' Shotgun
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This is the line, from the script:
DENNIS: Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.ARTHUR: Be quiet!
You were getting that line confused with this one, which follows it:
DENNIS: Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
But thanks for trying anyway.
And I'm trying to answer your question but it doesn't work if you don't give alittle.
What doesn't work? It's a simple question. I'll post it one more time. If you want me to "give" a little, then start by answering my question. I have already answered yours once. Here's mine for the third time:
Is any expenditure by the gubmint "that doesn't have the 100% support of the American people by definition coersion and thus immoral" in your understanding, or just aid?
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