The Israel Problem: Why We Should End The Welfare

self | 12/30/01 | Rick Fisk

[Demidog]

Arguments over Israel and support of Israel are extremely contentious.

Support for Israel runs the gambit from those who support them, to the extent of wanting them to be an extension of the U.S. in the middle east, to those who are anti-Semitic and would like to see Israel destroyed.

Of course there is some middle ground, but in general the arguments about how the U.S. should treat Israel in the context of our broader foreign policy decisions is generally framed with opponents accusing each other of one extreme end of the spectrum or the other.

Hidden amongst the rhetorical rubble of these combative arguments, is the unanswered question which I believe is the core issue regarding Israel and U.S:

Who gets to decide the fate of Israel?

Is it Israel? Or is it the foerign policy wonks of the U.S. who are more interested in U.S. interests than those of Israel?

Staunch supporters of Israel would like to have their cake and eat it too. They would like the U.S. to continue to send billions in foreign and military aid, and yet butt out of Israel's own foreign policy decisions. Those on the opposite end probably want the same cake: U.S. support ceases and is over-run by her enemies.

If Israel lobs a missile or plants a booby trap that kills Palestinian children, the arguments flare up again and those who do not support Israel (like the so-called "Amen-Corner") perceive such incidents as license to condemn Israel and question U.S. support. While the "Amen-Corner" fights tooth and nail sometimes even ignores real attrocities or blames the victims of those attrocities in order to keep the pressure on to continue aid to Israel.

But it's a losing proposition for both sides.

Those who support Israel to the extreme do not get what they want because U.S. foreign policy is not concerned at all with what is in the best interests of Israel. It is concerned with U.S. interests. And those who do not support Israel (for whatever reason) do not have a choice. They must support Israel because they cannot direct their tax dollars away from Israel.

The money and aid that the U.S. sends to Israel has strings attached like all welfare programs foreign or domestic. Israel will never get to fully direct its own foreign policy as long as it is required to cowtow to U.S. demands. And it will always have to cowtow to U.S. demands as long as the U.S. government is providing the aid.

The right thing for Israel to do, if it is interested in becoming truly independent is to reject that aid. But this is easier stated than put into action.

Israel could no more reject American aid than a heroin addict could stare at a fresh fix and walk away.

The relationship between Israel and the U.S. is viewed by some as necessary to bring stability to the middle east. But the relationship is not healthy. It is marred, and more resembles a pimp/hooker relationship than two friends who are trying to help each other.

I have said on more than one occasion that our support of Israel is not moral. But this is not quite accurate. It isn't the support itself that is immoral. It is the forced nature of the support that is immoral combined with the U.S.'s insistence that control be associated with that support.

Those Americans that do not wish to support Israel should not have to do so. Just like none of us should have to support a family with our labor via Section 8, welfare programs or public schools, we should also not have to support another nation against our will.

Those who wish to support Israel with their taxes should be allowed to send as much as they wish. And I would venture a guess that the support Israel received from private citizens would far surpass what is given now (12 dollars or so per taxpayer).

And furthermore, how much sense does it make for the U.S. to send aid to both Israel and the Palestinians or Jordanians or other potential enemies of Israel against the wishes of those who support Israel?

It doesn't at all. That is why we must stop foreign aid to Israel and leave it in the hands of our private citizens. Of course, combined with this must also be the end of the Income tax. Ending the Income Tax would free the American people to support whomever they wished, foreign or domestic, without strings and without government control.

Since when is the U.S. as a nation qualified or even authorized to decide what is best for any nation other than the U.S.?

Since.....never.

And the added benefit to such a solution is the immediate calming of the rhetoric and the elimination the perceived problem with those of us who want an end to U.S. managed support of Israel: coersion.

There is nothing wrong with supporting Israel. It should not be forced at the point of a gun.

[NixNatAVanG InDaBurgh]

Re: the Liberty and the Pueblo. Yeah, tell us about how the NSA deliberately cut the ship off from normal command and control without telling the Navy in order to play stupid spook games. Notice that the USN no longer operates that kind of ship--they told the NSA to go have an improper relationship with themselves. That won't be an issue this time around.

Posted on 10/04/2001 05:31:59 PDT by Poohbah

To: Poohbah

Re: the Liberty and the Pueblo. Yeah, tell us about how the NSA deliberately cut the ship off from normal command and control without telling the Navy in order to play stupid spook games. Notice that the USN no longer operates that kind of ship--they told the NSA to go have an improper relationship with themselves.

These are the facts. Why haven't they appeared from some of you in the know types on the rotten Librty threads that permeated FR blaming Israel for what the NSA did? The NSA never even informed the Commander of the Liberty what they were doing or why...let alone the crew. They boarded in secret and set up shop restricting any crew members from entering their lair. They knew exactly what they were doing, but the innocent crew did not. And the NSA never has come clean, preferring to allow the entire world to blame Israel for an unprovoked attack. They allowed the Pueblo's crew to be imprisoned for their (NSA's) incompetence and then blamed the Captain for *confessing*. Jeez!!!

161 Posted on 10/04/2001 06:05:10 PDT by NixNatAVanG InDaBurgh

[ To: NixNatAVanG InDaBurgh

It's in several of the books--and acknowledged in the various investigations--that when the spooks came aboard, the first thing that happened was the skipper getting told that any signal that came in over the military communications network was to be considered for information only, and that orders could only travel over certain Top Secret channels.

164 Posted on 10/04/2001 08:48:49 PDT by Poohbah

To: SKYDRIFTER

I did mention the Liberty. You just chose to ignore it. Apparently the NSA gets a pass on criminal activity in your world.

165 Posted on 10/04/2001 09:16:02 PDT by Poohbah

NIX

[cardinal4]

Read my post,I said that I would bet that they would bear me out.

[NixNatAVanG InDaBurgh]

Any aid that doesn't have the 100% support of the American people is by definition coersion and thus immoral.

By that precise logic, I take it you would dismantle the Armed Forces of the United States of America since obviously Berkley doesn't agree with it?

NIX

[Catspaw]

I don't have to "prove" anything because the statement requires no proof.

Of course you have to prove it. You said Spotlight articles are truthful. You read it, I don't, so you know which articles are truthful and which are not. So post a truthful Spotlight article and prove your statement.

If you refuse to post a truthful Spotlight article, then the only conclusion one can is that Spotlight articles are untruthful.

[Catspaw]

You are something out of a george orwell novel. I have no back issues of the spotlight.

So you lied to Justin Rainmondo about looking his picture in your Spotlight back issues? Oh, my, what backpedaling.

[vrwc54]

That is a flat out lie. I have never quoted anything from AFP. I challenge you to find ANYthing I have ever quoted from it. - Ridin' Shotgun

LOL... From here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/589096/posts?q=1&&page=401.

To: Cachelot

In the Oct. 1st issue of AFP,it was reported that five 'middle eastern men' had been arrested after being reported 'laughing and taking pictures of the burning towers from atop a moving van'. According to AFP these men were actually Israeli's, carrying $4,000 in cash, multiple fake passports and boxcutters. Three weeks later, that report also appeared in the New York Times, page F3. Much to your dismay, this news is beginning to dribble out now that the five have been released and sent back home, although hundreds of Arabs still languish in American jails for the crime of having overstayed their visas. Equal justice? Incidentally, news of these five fellas was also printed in Israel's news papers. Are they nazis, too?

439 posted on 12/15/01 2:11 PM Pacific by Ridin' Shotgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 435 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

[Ridin' Shotgun]

... I would bet that they would bear me out.

Sorry Cardinal, 'bets' aren't admissible evidence in courts of law.

[Catspaw]

*snicker* To: Cachelot

In the Oct. 1st issue of AFP......

439 posted on 12/15/01 2:11 PM Pacific by Ridin' Shotgun

[jwh_Denver]

Who gets to decide the fate of Israel?

I think God already has that taken care of.

[Ridin' Shotgun]

that report also appeared in the New York Times, page F3

You also neglected to post the part about this story also appearing in the Orlando Sentinel.

But they're lyin SOS too, right? You just shot yourself in the foot, fella.

[dennisw]

Ridin' shotgun on a garbage truck full of lies. YOU ARE BUSTED SHOTGUN. Time to fess up!!

[dennisw]

U r busted dumbass!

[dennisw]

YEAH! You and the Mullah Omar!

[Ridin' Shotgun]

So what else can you drag out of that dossier you keep on me? Who are you anyway, the KGB in Amerika?

[Catspaw]

Ridin' shotgun on a garbage truck full of lies. YOU ARE BUSTED SHOTGUN. Time to fess up!!

LOL! Even when confronted by the lie, he's still going to try to spin his way out of it.

[Ridin' Shotgun]

No, I'm not busted ... the article may have appeared in AFP, but it was fully backed up in the mainstream media. Someone was asking for something out of AFP that was true ... well, read it and weep.

[Catspaw]

So what else can you drag out of that dossier you keep on me? Who are you anyway, the KGB in Amerika?

All you had to do was tell the truth. But you lied. And you got caught. Now you're trying to shift the blame for your lies to me.

Nice spin, BTW, just as I predicted.

[Demidog]

I think they meant that strange women laying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

If you're going to refer to Monty Python, get it right. It's "watery tart."

And I'm trying to answer your question but it doesn't work if you don't give alittle. What do you think the founders meant when they claimed that governments derived their just powers from the consent of the governed?

[Ridin' Shotgun]

No spin. Are you trying to argue that the story wasn't true or just deflect attention away from the facts of that story as they stand?

[Catspaw]

No spin. Are you trying to argue that the story wasn't true or just deflect attention away from the facts of that story as they stand?

You really ought to quit while you're ahead.