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US losing market share (My Title)
St. Louis Post Discrap ^ | 12/27/01 | Jeff Green

Posted on 12/27/2001 1:37:13 PM PST by demsux

Edited on 05/11/2004 5:33:24 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: Alberta's Child
I did not know that.Thanks. At least Ford learned a lesson.

Here's a question: People are right about how Japanese auto makers have plants in the US, for example the plant outside Columbus, Ohio that makes Honda Accords. Why is it that Honda with American workers is able to make a great car while the US based makers still make crap?

22 posted on 12/27/2001 2:15:44 PM PST by mjk19
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To: Aaron_A
Toyota may make a tougher truck than GM, but it sure isn't a Humvee either.
23 posted on 12/27/2001 2:16:55 PM PST by SoDak
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To: mjk19
Why is it that Honda with American workers is able to make a great car while the US based makers still make crap?

Superior management in Japanese companies. Also, these plants are staffed by non-union employees who have no interest in joining the UAW (even though many of them were UAW members when the same plants were owned by Ford or GM).

24 posted on 12/27/2001 2:21:36 PM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: demsux
It's not about having some a priori prejudice against American products, I think. We all want our nation to do well. But be realistic - when I shop for anything, including cars, I look at price and I look at quality. If American products are competitive in those respects, I'll buy them, and if they aren't, I won't. If domestic automakers can consistently make cars of the price and/or quality of their foreign competition, I'll give them a look. But if American automakers can't make cars like that, then they deserve to go out of business. I happen to think they can, but for a long time they didn't have to, so they fell into bad habits.

If we can get cheaper, better cars elsewhere, it is wasteful and inefficient to produce cars here. We live in a world of scarce and limited economic resources, and we should be allocating those resources elsewhere, rather than trying to prevent dinosaurs from going extinct. "Buy American" is nothing more than a restatement of the commandment to "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain", IMO...

25 posted on 12/27/2001 2:29:43 PM PST by general_re
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To: demsux
At the risk of burning at the stake (from the coming flames), I submit this article. These are the folks that attacked Pearl Harbor in a TERRORIST ATTACK...

No. Uniformed military attacking military targets is absolutely NOT terrorism. It was a sneak attack and very nasty, but it wasn't terrorism.

now they control a large portion of our economy from within our borders and at the expense of our workers.

They have plants in this country. The Americans who work in those plants are almost certainly grateful for the jobs, especially now when there are tons of layoffs elsewhere.

If history repeats itself, Islamic fundamentalist states will come to control some large portion of our economy. Which will it be? Oil, commerce or what little manufacturing we have left?

You lost me here. What the hell are you talking about?

Keep flying those American flags on those Japanese cars and let the profits flow to Japan.

If they've earned the profits, they should get the profits. And they have earned the profits. I've had American cars. I will never buy another &^$%#@&^ Ford again, even if it does mean I'm sending money overseas!

26 posted on 12/27/2001 2:30:30 PM PST by irv
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To: spongebob58
Halberstam's book was great. The most interesting story in it was about Ford plants having to lie about daily production in order to meet precise daily quotas set by none other than Robert McNamara hisself! Halberstam noted how this foreshadowed the bogus body counts of Vietnam a few years later.

I have owned mostly Japanese cars but in 1997 I bought a Ford Expedition and have since bought an F150 and replaced the Expedition with a new one. It is because of competition with the Japanese that Ford now excels with its light trucks. The highest praise I can give my Fords is that their fit and finish and reliability is positively Japanese! I hope Ford keeps it up forever.

Halberstam also described Nissan engineers' feelings of inferiority about the trashy underpowered little vehicles that they made when they first came to the US. They were so ashamed of their products in comparison with American iron that they made up the name "Datsun" so as not to disgrace the Nissan name in the US. Just shows that everybody has to play catch up from time to time.

27 posted on 12/27/2001 2:33:38 PM PST by SBprone
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To: general_re
"Buy American" is nothing more than a restatement of the commandment to "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain", IMO...

I often run into the same thing on a smaller scale. People say, "buy local." Around here, it's "buy Kodak, because it helps keep your neighbors employed."

But I can buy a product of exactly the same quality for a third the price from Fuji or Canon (depending on the product) and my neighbors are getting laid off right and left, even in those relatively few periods when Kodak makes a profit. So, why am I supposed to buy American again?

28 posted on 12/27/2001 2:45:29 PM PST by irv
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To: SBprone
Correct. Did you ever see a 1961 Toyopet by Toyota ? A more godawful pile of junk you could not find.
Then they started reading about a guy named W. Edwards Deming (statistical process control), and the rest is history.
29 posted on 12/27/2001 2:48:59 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: irv
Yeah, get your wedding pictures printed on Kodak paper, even if it is known to fade out in a few years. Or you could use Fuji to make colorfast prints and pay less money too. I don't know if Kodak has fixed this problem yet, but it was a case of not having an acceptable American alternative at any price.
30 posted on 12/27/2001 2:51:28 PM PST by SBprone
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: demsux
These are the folks that attacked Pearl Harbor in a TERRORIST ATTACK...

By your reckoning, when Bush I launched Desert Storm, it was also a terrorist attack. Just Brilliant.

Your understanding of macroeconomics is equally misinformed.

32 posted on 12/27/2001 2:52:57 PM PST by FirstFlaBn
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To: irv
You must be in Rochester - I think that E-6 is the only thing keeping Kodak in business ;)

People say "Buy American." I say, "Make something worth buying, American."

33 posted on 12/27/2001 2:56:46 PM PST by general_re
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To: demsux
Really...

I have two Toyota's (93 Camry & 99 Avalon) and a 97 Chrysler Town and Country. The Chrysler is a total piece of crap. The rotors have to be turned on practically every service because they warp. They warp because the vehicle is too heavy for the size of the breaking system... The van has had transmission, electrical, brake and engine problems... A real winner. Meanwhile the Toyota's just keep on going and don't sound like the engine is going to explode while accelerating at any moment...

When you reward crappy products you get more of them. When you reward well engineered products you get more of those instead. I vote with my dollars for better products. It is called competition and its just reward for success.

If you think Islam is going to economically over take America you're the "moron". Islam produces nothing but desolation everywhere it goes. Its very culture is diametrically opposed to discovery and invention. Japan became a powerhouse after its basic culture was destroyed in WWII. Islam is by no means about to be destroyed. Out of a planet full of people you fear the Arabs and Muslims economically… You scare me your "reasoning".

34 posted on 12/27/2001 2:58:21 PM PST by DB
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To: FirstFlaBn
Your understanding of macroeconomics is equally misinformed.

As I majored in economics, I feel that I am definitely more qualified than you (an anonymous poster) to speak regarding economics. Couple of questions for you, o brilliant one: Does the Japanese government still subsidize their auto manufacturers? How much of the infrastructure costs necessary to construct a manufacturing plant in the USA does said Japanese manufacturer pay?

35 posted on 12/27/2001 3:07:05 PM PST by demsux
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To: demsux
The Japanese cars put the American cars to shame. There is no way I will ever buy another American car until they get their act together. I bought American cars through the 1980s and I got sick and tired of all the constant breakdowns, shoddy workmanship and poor performance. My wife bought a Nissan Maxima in 1987 and it is still on the road today with over 240,000 miles. We also have a Nissan Quest van with over 50,000 miles in two years. In addition, I bought an old Datsun in 1986 and put over 100,000 miles on it before my company gave me a Ford Tempo as a company car in 1991. That car was a disaster. The serpentine (timing) belt must have gone at least five times and I was constantly having stalling problems and the brakes had to be worked on virtually every time I brought it in for an oil change. A nasty, despicable car. American automakers ought to be ashamed to put such crap on the road.

I since went to a Nissan Altima and again, went back to having zero problems with cars. I have been a member of AAA for nearly 20 years and I have never had to call them for a tow once when driving a Nissan.

Face it. The Japanese have kicked out butts in car-making. They make far better cars then the American companies. I think the major problem in America is the overpaid union workers who get $33.23 an hour to stand in place on assembly lines and who call in sick ten or fifteen times a year. The average American auto-worker has no pride in a job well done. Instead, all they are looking for is an easy paycheck. Not that the management in American auto companies are all that sharp either.

36 posted on 12/27/2001 4:32:58 PM PST by SamAdams76
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To: demsux
I have a '94 Acura Integra that hasn't given me one major problem in the 5 years I've owned it. It runs as well as the day I got it. That can't be said for any American car our family has ever owned. We've got to get our act together in the country when it comes to making quality cars.
37 posted on 12/27/2001 4:37:34 PM PST by July 4th
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To: demsux
I have an even more important question: why is it that Detroit can't figure out how to build a car that doesn't require extensive repair every 25,000 miles?
38 posted on 12/27/2001 4:39:15 PM PST by Poohbah
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: edmund929
I'll drive my ratteling, Made in USA Dodge into the ground before I even accept a ride a Japanese import and tell the 2,403 men at the bottom of Pearl Harbor it wasn't a terrorist attack.
40 posted on 12/15/1990 1:42:19 AM PST by dirtydanusa
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