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Dying boy, 15, gets wish: losing virginity
Chicago Sun Times ^ | 12/23/01 | BY BENJAMIN ERRETT

Posted on 12/23/2001 6:26:24 AM PST by Mopp4

A terminally ill boy had his dying wish granted in Australia this month, but ethicists are still at odds over whether it was the right thing to do.
The wish was not for a trip to Disneyland or to meet a famous sports star. Instead, the 15-year-old wanted to lose his virginity before he died of cancer. The boy, who remains anonymous but was called Jack by the Australian media, did not want his parents to know about his request. Because of his many years spent in the hospital, he had no girlfriend or female friends.
Jack died last week, but not before having his last wish granted. Without the knowledge of his parents or hospital staff, friends arranged an encounter with a prostitute outside of hospital premises. All precautions were taken, and the organizers made sure the act was fully consensual. The issue has sparked fierce debate over the legal and ethical implications of granting the boy's request. By law, Jack was still a child, and the woman involved could in theory face charges for having sex with a minor. The debate was sparked by the hospital's child psychologist, who wrote a letter to "Life Matters," a radio show in which academics debate ethical and moral dilemmas. The scenario was presented in the abstract, with no details about the boy's identity.

"He had been sick for quite a long period, and his schooling was very disrupted, so he hadn't had many opportunities to acquire and retain friends, and his access to young women was pretty poor," the psychologist said recently in an interview with Australia's Daily Telegraph newspaper. "But he was very interested in young women and was experiencing that surge of testosterone that teenage boys have." Hospital staff initially wanted to pool donations to pay for a prostitute, but the ethical and legal implications prevented them from doing so. The psychologist presented members of the clergy with the dilemma and found no clear answer. "It really polarized them," he said. "About half said, 'What's your problem?' And the other half said [it] demeans women and reduces the sexual act to being just a physical one."

Dr. Stephen Leeder, dean of medicine at the University of Sydney and a "Life Matters" panelist, said the issue was a difficult one. "I pointed out that public hospitals operated under the expectation that they would abide by state law," he said. "While various things doubtless are done that are at the edge of that, it's important the public has confidence that the law will be followed." Jack's psychologist, who works with children in palliative care, said the desire was driven in part by a need for basic human contact. "In a child dying over a long period of time, there is often a condition we call 'skin hunger,'" he said. The terminally ill child yearns for non-clinical contact because "mostly when people touch them, it's to do something unpleasant, something that might hurt." Leeder called the diagnosis "improbable." Judy Lumby, the show's other panelist and the executive director of the New South Wales College of Nursing, argued that the details as presented made it abundantly clear the boy's wish ought to be granted. "I said that I would try my darndest as a nurse to do whatever I could to make sure his wish came true," she said. "I just think we are so archaic in the way we treat people in institutions. Certainly, if any of my three daughters were dying, I'd do whatever I could, and I'm sure that you would, too." National Post


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To: BlessedBeGod
How convenient.

Yes, it is for me.  I knew at an early age attending Sunday school that it wasn't for me.  I got tired of hearing all their pontifications about how you had to do things "their" way or you couldn't get into Heaven.  Kinda like some snooty country club.  Yet whenever I pointed out that the Jews don't do it your way, and the Catholics don't do it your way, they always got kinda squirmy. 

So I decided I would have my own denomination, and I live my life according to it.  It's the same way all the other ones got started, some guy decides he doesn't like things in his church and starts out on his own with his own spin on things.  The only difference being that I'm not out trying to convert people to my way of life. 

101 posted on 12/23/2001 9:35:17 AM PST by FatherTorque
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To: innocentbystander
I don't like die hard moral christians...but I suppose you could ask a real priest or nun your question.
103 posted on 12/23/2001 9:38:26 AM PST by Sungirl
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To: Eternal_Bear
God had to be smiling.

That wasn't smiling, that was cringing. I don't think God smiles on prostitution, ( adultery), Lying to parents ( honor they mother and thy father). There are two of the big 10 broken right there. They aren't called the Ten Good Suggestions.

104 posted on 12/23/2001 9:38:44 AM PST by Hillary's Lovely Legs
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To: cocknlock
I thought that was only reserved for mass murderers!
105 posted on 12/23/2001 9:38:54 AM PST by zarf
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To: NAMMARINE
Full of hate? et tu?
106 posted on 12/23/2001 9:39:32 AM PST by NeoCrusade
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To: Mopp4
I was dying to get laid when I was 15...
107 posted on 12/23/2001 9:39:33 AM PST by placebo
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To: Mopp4
It was his last wish before he died. Good for him and let him rest in peace.
108 posted on 12/23/2001 9:39:42 AM PST by My Favorite Headache
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To: FatherTorque
Yeah, but you can shoot up a movie theater and later on accept Jesus and all is forgiven. Who could hate a religion like that?
109 posted on 12/23/2001 9:41:20 AM PST by zarf
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Comment #110 Removed by Moderator

To: My Favorite Headache
WOW...I am sincerely shocked. After reading many posts in this thread...I understand why teenagers have been getting pregnant. And it seems like there is no chance its every going to change with these attitudes.
111 posted on 12/23/2001 9:46:06 AM PST by Sungirl
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To: Arthur McGowan; cagey; b4its2late
You have officially declared yourself to be an animal.Yes, I guess so Arthur.

I am woman, hear me roar

MEEEEEOOOOOWWWWWWW

112 posted on 12/23/2001 9:46:51 AM PST by Neets
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To: zarf
Oh, I never hated them, just didn't agree with any of them. They all seem to know the "correct" way to do things to get into Heaven, but none of them agree.

The denomination that impressed me the most was some of the really devout Pentecostal types back home in Ky. that practiced snake handling. Say what you want about them, but those cats had more faith than I'll ever have.

113 posted on 12/23/2001 9:47:21 AM PST by FatherTorque
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To: Cvengr
"It's been said that for those destined for eternal damnation, the world is the closest they'll get to heaven. For those with an eternal relationship with God paid for by Him, our worldly stay is the closest to hell we'll ever know".

Amen Cvenger...

Isaiah 52:7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

114 posted on 12/23/2001 9:47:46 AM PST by hope
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To: innocentbystander
They cant.... its a problem trying to reconcile the two "halves" of the Bible. In the first half (in the interest of full disclosure: the one I believe in) we have Judah hiring a harlot, Samson getting it on with ladies, Solomon praising women's breasts, etc.

Then you get to the second half. Pauline xtianty takes over after the "gospels" (which only changed some of the Laws (not that I am advocating even changing an iota of one)) and you start getting an increasing zealots view and rules (he was a zealot before his conversion to xtianity, why not afterwards as well?). Now, you screw up and your damned to hell. Interestingly, you can take a very Gnostic "oath" and say you believe in so-and-so and then get away with anything and all the prior stuff is forgotten about too!

HOWEVER, there appears to be a catch to this. Just like you can take your Gnostic oath after a life of murder and mayhem and be automatically swept up into heaven from your deathbed, the flip side is if you don't take the oath before that bus hits you from behind, then your damned. But lets say the bus hits you tommorrow. Then you have a full 24 hours to take the Gnostic oath and your AOK for eternity. Got that?

115 posted on 12/23/2001 9:49:19 AM PST by bigcheese
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Comment #116 Removed by Moderator

Comment #117 Removed by Moderator

To: bigcheese
"War brides" - very interesting. I was just reading the debate on this thread and didn't plan on posting until I read your post.

Here's my take: The caregivers at the hospital were probably less than "moral" people, not to mention the prostitute. But - they were at least compassionate enough to allow the boy to experience ONCE what many of us often take for granted.

I normally don't bash the "fundies", since I was raised by two of the biggest ones, but they are being very selfish and overly judgemental on this one. It's easy to sit back and condemn when they are not the ones in this kid's shoes. They rage because "there was no love in this sex act." News Flash - HE DID NOT WANT LOVE - HE WANTED SEX! I'm sure he experienced plenty of love from his family and medical staff during his sickness, but sex WITH love was not going to happen in his lifetime, so he just settled for sex.

I'm 32 and married. I am a Christian. I have accepted the Gift of Salvation from God through His Son, Jesus Christ. If I was single, terminally ill, bed-ridden, and had never had any loving intimate contact with a female I would make the same request. Would it be a sin? Maybe - but so is just THINKING about it. Would I go to hell when I died? Absolutely not.

If this boy went to hell, it is not because he had sex with a hooker. It was because he did not know Christ. People who think that their ticket to Heaven is to live a pure moral life, while judging those who don't are in for a big surprise on the Day of Judgement.

118 posted on 12/23/2001 10:00:33 AM PST by pocat
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To: innocentbystander
so, in conclusion ;-), we either have a kid in hell because a new law was given to mankind in the "second half" of the bible OR what these so quick to condemn mini-gods (think of mini-me in austin powers) are forgetting about is that the kid could have taken "the oath" anytime between his ummmm.... "finishing", and his death, and is now in heaven directing seagulls or other birds to drop copious amounts of poop .... ah, nevermind. I dont want to go for this many years just to get banned. Use your imagination.
119 posted on 12/23/2001 10:02:03 AM PST by bigcheese
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To: innocentbystander
"I wonder if all of you die-hard moralist Christians can accept that under your beliefs, every urge, evey desire that this 15 y/o boy had was placed in him by your God?

What kind of God would create such a condition in a boy, then damn that same boy for acting on that condition?"

I'd like to answer this, but I must point out that I do not consider myself a 'die-hard moralist Christian' ( at least as I think is beign implied in your post).

Yes, all these things are a part of being human. And I could not say whether or not God would condemn the boy to eternal damnation.
I cannot say that a premise implied in your argument is entirely correct--that because these things are placed there by God, they are an intrinsic part of our being, therefore it is completely natural and okay to act on every impulse that is generated by aforementioned characteristics.
After all, if a person is pre-disposed to alcoholism, most rational people do not run about encouraging said person to drink it up because that urge is entirely natural. In fact, they attempt to discourage the behavior and situations that would encourage the behavior because there are consequences.
People are given many instincts, that wonderfully contribute to the total package of being human. It is how these instincts are used and directed that is the question--and it is a philisophical question that cannot be answered in a concise form. The point about this that is being ignored, consciously or otherwise, by those who would be quick to condemn, is that the boy's motivation wasn't necessarily out of getting his rocks off.

Would I have tried to let the boy know that getting laid was not the focal point of human existence? Possibly. Would I set myself in the position of God and condemn the boy to eternal damnation for this? Absolutely not. I have no idea of what God would say to the kid, or what would happen. And I definitely would not be a Pharisee and quote Bible verses to justify a personal condemnation of the boy.

120 posted on 12/23/2001 10:03:17 AM PST by Tench_Coxe
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