The drug war vs. the war on terror

Chicago Tribune ^ | December 13, 2001 | Steve Chapman

[CrossCheck]

On Oct. 25, six weeks after the worst terrorist atrocities in our history, the United States was bombing Afghanistan, Colin Powell was discussing a post-Taliban government, investigators were grappling with anthrax in the mail, and federal agents were . . . well, they were going after pot smokers in California. If John Ashcroft had been around during the Chicago fire, he would have been handcuffing jaywalkers.

[Liberty Teeth]

"Hmm, Rudolph Guiliani got the pot smokers and crackheads off the streets and crime plummeted in New York City."

Crime drops for a number of reasons. For example, when the economy is doing well, demographics(number of teenage males), and the advances in technology as it relates to security and surveillance. Not to mention the good samaritans and a focus on self-defense.

[jeffyraven]

I've been lurking on FREEP for well over a year, and I finally took the plunge and registered the other day, primarily because I read one too many idiotic Dane posts. And VA is a world unto himself as well. People, please understand: The War on Some Drugs is a war on YOU! Plain and simple. I don't understand to save my life why this is hard to comprehend.

[Dakmar]

Actually I was referring to a small garden I have in my yard, but you keep on making assumptions that fit your perception of reality, it's good mental exercise. Just don't confuse them with the real world or they'll come after you with a big butterly net, if they haven't already.

[fod]

lol!

so the inane one has an effect on lurkers!

Welcome, and don't cut her any slack...

[biblewonk]

No, we just consider the crimes done against us within the last few months and put 2 and 2 together.

[Dakmar]

So it must have been pot-smokers, huh, and not, oh, burglars or someone like that?

[tacticalogic]

You also are a person who puts drugs users on the same moral plane as land owners, firearms owners, home schoolers, and pea farmers.

I am a person who holds that all are, or should be, equal under the law. My morals have no bearing on the situation, and neither do yours. You believe the end justifies the means. I do not, and I will point out just how ugly those means are wheather you like hearing it or not.

Sheesh you Libertarians will insult anyone to justify the use of drugs.

Pft!

[54-46 Was My Number]

"The toxic effects produced by "cannabin", the active narcotic principal of the cannabis sativa, hemp, or marihuana, appear to be exclusively to the higher nerve centers. The drug produces first an exaltation with a feeling of well-being; a happy, jovial mood, usually; and increased feeling of physical strength and power; and a general euphoria is experienced. Accompanying this exaltation is a stimulation of the imagination, followed by a more-or-less delirious state characterized by vivid kaleidoscopic visions, sometimes of a pleasing sensual kind, but occasionally of a gruesome nature. Accompanying this delirious state is a remarkable loss in spatial and time relations; persons and things in the environment look small; time is interminable; seconds seem like minutes and hours like days. Let us think, for instance, of what might happen if a person under its influence were driving a high-powered automobile.

Those who are habitually accustomed to use of the drug are said to develop a delirious rage after its administration, during which they are temporarily, at least, irresponsible and liable to commit violent crimes. The prolonged use of this narcotic is said to produce mental deterioration. It apparently releases inhibitions of an antisocial nature whichh dwell within the individual."

[Dane]

I've been lurking on FREEP for well over a year, and I finally took the plunge and registered the other day, primarily because I read one too many idiotic Dane posts.... People, please understand: The War on Some Drugs is a war on YOU! Plain and simple. I don't understand to save my life why this is hard to comprehend

Welcome to FR Jeffy, actually the War to Validate Drugs is a war On future generations. Your profile says you have 3 kids.

JMO, but with your mindset(liberal/libertarian) I wouldn't be surprised if you have a Johnny Jihad in your future.

[54-46 Was My Number]

JMO, but with your mindset(liberal/libertarian) I wouldn't be surprised if you have a Johnny Jihad in your future.

Since when is individual liberty a liberal mindset?

[jeffyraven]

Well, all of my kids are children are girls, so at worst they'd be Jane Jihads. :) In seriousness, though, tis no crime to disrespect idiotic and immoral laws. Because your government says it does not make it right.

[realpatriot71]

You really make this too easy . . .

Rudolph Guiliani got the pot smokers and crackheads off the streets and crime plummeted in New York City.

You still have yet to back up this claim with any sort of documented source. Is this a figment of your imagination? Probably.

An ill-informed comment from across the pond(England), where drugs are being legalized and crime is skyrocketing.

More creative thinking . . . Can you substantiate this claim?

Do you put drugs such as marijuana, crack, and heroin on the same moral plane as the Bible and firearms.

Two words: Straw Man . . . Two More Words: Logical Fallacy. You really should try to debate the actual topic.

Yep that's why the taliban made their money by growing and marketing heroin

Aren't illegal markets wonderful? It's your WOD that financed the Taliban.

If you think that Western Europe, especially England is so great, why don't you move there.

Is this an argument? Why don't you move to Singapore.

I guess you are an "occasional" pea farmer because you are to busy making "munchy runs" and laughing at your hand after toking on the bong all day.

This isn't even an argument. Two words ad homenem

I wouldn't be surprised if you have a Johnny Jihad in your future.

It NEVER stops with you. The ad homenem flow like milk and honey.

You have not made a single decent argument against the legalization of drugs. You seem to have a fun time attacking straw men and giving out ad homenem attacks. Other than that you're worthless.

[Dane]

The prolonged use of this narcotic(cannabis) is said to produce mental deterioration. It apparently releases inhibitions of an antisocial nature which dwell within the individual."

Case Closed

[Nate505]

Hmm, Rudolph Guiliani got the pot smokers and crackheads off the streets and crime plummeted in New York City.

So what, crime plummetted in San Francisco and Willie Brown and Frank Jordan didn't do anything special. In fact, crime has plummetted in most major cities in the last decade.....gee, it couldn't have anything to do with the average age of the population increasing and the economic level of most people going up, could it?

[Nate505]

Let me ask you a question. Firearms help protect innocent people and property, how many lives have a joint, crackpipe, or heroin needle saved.

But have a joint, crackpipe, and heroin needle killed more innocent people than handguns?

[realpatriot71]

Remember yesterday when I said when usually do not agree on a lot and couldn't remember. :-)

So far your argument has been that people who use drugs steal. People who don't use drugs steal. People who use legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco steal. You may be able to argue that those who use illegal drugs steal at a higher rate than those who don't. However, it would be the illegal nature of the substance that leads to extreme price inflations. How much did alchol cost when it was illegal? I'll have to look up the cost comparisans with todays dollars, but the price is always higher in a black market. Legal drugs leads to lower prices which means that less people steal to get money for drugs.

p.s. Did sinkspur ever get back to us on the theological basis for Mariology?

[fod]

yes, dear, we understand.

Just a few more laws, and a couple more police and everything will be just fine.

in dane's utopia, The Village shall prevail

[Nate505]

If you think that Western Europe, especially England is so great, why don't you move there.

Ahh, the typical 'why don't you move there' moronic answer, but I didn't expect much better from you. Americans (excpet the worthless draft dogers) have a proud history of changing laws they don't agree with instead of running away from them.

But watch out if you want to defend yourself in your own house.

I've never had to defend myself in my own house here....my guess is the English suburbs are not very different in terms of crime rate.

[William Terrell]

And I say, Dane, that anybody in NYC can get any drug they want when they want it, including school children and incarcerated felons. Right now, today.

[NittanyLion]

Dane to jeffyraven: JMO, but with your mindset(liberal/libertarian) I wouldn't be surprised if you have a Johnny Jihad in your future.

You're shameless. No one, including you, could possibly believe disgusting arguments like this one will persuade others. Your only purpose here is to disrupt.