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How were the Native Indians when Columbus arrived?[Angels?, Savages?,etc]
Myself ^ | 12-3-01 | electron1

Posted on 12/03/2001 11:18:01 AM PST by electron1

I have a question. I was discussing Native Indians with a friend of mine, and she seems to believe that Indians were nature loving angels and our ancestors totally ruined their harmonious relationship with nature. Is this true?

This may very well be true, but since it fits perfectly into the liberal propaganda, I have my suspicions. Since liberals are known for supressing the truth to further their cause.

I have also seen posts on here where a person has briefly mentioned that the way we currently imagine the Indians of the time is not true to how they actually were.

Can anybody assist me in understanding the true character of the Indians at the time? I appreciate any input.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Free Republic
KEYWORDS: godsgravesglyphs
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To: electron1
bttt
121 posted on 12/03/2001 8:14:02 PM PST by Don Myers
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Comment #122 Removed by Moderator

To: electron1
You know what? I think Free Republic posters just flat suck. I posted a reply to this query as somebody who spent ten years among native people and got not one reply to my comments --- all comments were from people who had READ about native people. Y'all suck. I'll be damned if I remain on this site or spend any more effort trying to communicate. Drop effing dead.
123 posted on 12/03/2001 8:53:54 PM PST by sanantonioalex
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To: John H K
However, I do have a problem with people who don't have at least the SLIGHTEST tinge of embarassment or guilt over some of the things that were done by the U.S. Government regarding the Indians.

Then you have a problem with me. I don't feel the slightest embarrassment or guilt over the events you describe. I had nothing whatsoever to do with them as they took place before I was born.

124 posted on 12/03/2001 9:06:49 PM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: sanantonioalex
I don't see why your upset. I read your post. If no one comments on it, it is probably because they have nothing to add to it. You should probably take it as a complement.
125 posted on 12/03/2001 9:21:37 PM PST by Dat
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To: sanantonioalex
Wow. You are Mr. SSSSEEENNNSSIIITTTIIIIVVVVEEEE.
126 posted on 12/03/2001 9:27:53 PM PST by electron1
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To: sanantonioalex
You know what? I read your post and thought it was excellent. I had clipped it to print with a few others that I thought were very good to give to my son.He has a totally unrealistic picture of the the colonists, missionaries and Indians,etc. He developed his understanding in the public school system aided by Hollywood.

I think many people just read and save a few posts that contain what appears to present an honest assessment whether gained by personal experience such as yours or well researched publications. Don't feel bad I've posted some comments that I thought were brilliant,witty and timely,as well as being factual and even asked questions and got nary a response. I just assume soneone out there in Freeperland will read it and start to change their thinking, or start to think. Some prepare the field,others plant,yet others water or weed and then someone,who to that point,hasn't lifted a finger,reaps and gets all the credit. Doesn't seem fair but its reality. So don't lose heart and when you have something interesting to say post it,I liked your post.

127 posted on 12/03/2001 9:49:38 PM PST by saradippity
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To: electron1; sanantonioalex; Publius6961
sanantonioalex; All of us want a little attention, but nobody expects to get a reply EVERY time. You sometimes have to wait DAYS to get a response. Patience, AND a little humility go a LONG way on this board.

By the way, electron1; I read your reply to me, but their were so many good specific responses that by the time I read it, I figured you already had good info and didn't need any more input from me!! Let me know if it's otherwise...

Publius6961, I simply said that OVERSIMPLIFICATION is wrong, not judgement of other cultures. Anytime you oversimplify, you avoid information and discussion, and information is key to good judgment. All the different tribes and confederations have to be judged on their own merits, and you can't do that accurately if you gloss over the specifics regarding each unique group.

128 posted on 12/03/2001 9:57:54 PM PST by dandelion
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Comment #129 Removed by Moderator

To: MosesKnows
Let's see, these noble savages didn't want riches. So why was it that they spent large amounts of time raiding each others villages and carrying off anything they could steal? If they were so peaceful, why did they wage almost constant war amongst themselves and torture and enslave their enemies?

Environmentalists - don't make me laugh. Being dependent on local wildlife because you're to ignorant to invent agriculture does not make you an environmentalist.

130 posted on 12/04/2001 7:22:28 AM PST by anothergrunt
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To: sanantonioalex
Hold on Alex. I've been in and out of Indian culture for thirty years. Been places and seen things that no other white man is allowed to. I still don't understand everything and I never will. Culture is often a subtle thing. How many of our ingrained attitudes are rooted in events hundreds of years in the murky past? How much of my makeup is influenced by the awed and reverential tones my great-great-great-great-great grandfather used when he described the heroics at the battle of Waterloo? Those simple tonal inflections, passed down generation to generation must have influenced my view of man, duty and heroism.

This is what we are dealing with here. Did an attitude or idea that I picked up from a Navajo kid have it's root in ancient prehistory or did he pick it up last week standing in line at Walmart? Like you say it's complicated.

I read your post and thought it knowledgable and well written. I had no points to dispute so I did not respond. I just added it to the vast amount that I have read on the subject, reinforcing some of my own conclusions and leaving others open to question. Don't take lack of response as insult or dismissal.

131 posted on 12/04/2001 7:57:28 AM PST by MARTIAL MONK
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To: 7thson
When the very primitive nomads and fierce Aztecs arrived at the Valley of Mexico around 1,280A.C, there were already several more advanced tribes that had developed efficient irrigation methods to grow their crops. The Tepanecas, the strongest tribe in the Valley of Mexico allowed the Aztecs to settle in what is now Chapultepec District in Mexico City. The Aztecs paid tribute to their Tepanec masters in levies of wood, harvest of maize, and above all, with a quickly gained reputation for cruelty, as mercenaries. Human sacrifices and cannibalism were practiced already in the Valley but the Aztecs elevated it from an occasional ritual to a regular feast.

Around 1,300, the tribe of Culhuacan, emerged as chief rival of the Tepanecas and sent an expedition to subdue the hated Aztecs mercenaries. Many Aztecs were slaughtered, and the defeated remnants of the tribe were herded back to Culhuacan as slaves. Later the Culhuacans sent the Aztecs into battle against the Xochimilcas, promising that if they triumphed, they were going to raise their status from slaves to mercenaries. The Aztecs crushed the Xochimilcas and brought back hundreds of enemy ears as trophies. Consequently the Aztec chief requested to be married to one of the daughters of the Calhuacan chief, Coxcoxtli, who complied in the hope of keeping the loyalty of the brutal Aztec mercenaries.

But the Aztecs, never had forgotten the massacre dealt them by the Calhuacans and their 25 years of servitude. When Coxcoxtli arrived at the foul-smelling, smoky, Aztec temple to witness his daughter’s wedding ceremony, a priest dressed in freshly flayed human skin greeted him. Only after his eyes had grown accustomed to the darkness of the temple did Coxcoxtli scream and recoil in horror; to see his own daughter’s skin draped around the priest. (Taken from La Capital, The Biography of Mexico City by Jonathan Kandell)

Here goes the fact vs. the myth of the “noble savage” concocted by J.J. Rousseau

132 posted on 12/04/2001 1:02:57 PM PST by Dqban22
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To: electron1
Remind her that scapling was started by the civilized Europeans, not the Native Americans.
133 posted on 12/04/2001 1:05:44 PM PST by wwjdn
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To: Constitution Day
Please, not everyone who clicks a name is responding to that particular person but clicking to post a response to the topic in general. I do this frequently when posting, a response to a general topic comes to mind and I just click and post. Thanks for correction of spelling.
134 posted on 12/04/2001 2:11:36 PM PST by nancetc
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To: anothergrunt
Invent agriculture????? ROFLMAO The MOLLOGON were involved in dry farming around the year 0; as were the HOHOKAM who farmed the desert utilizing irrigation systems. Even the Eastern Woodland tribes were involved in cultivation to some extent.

As far as riches...yes they surely did raid amongst other Indian tribes but never referred to those they raided and killed as the same as "themselves" they were enemies. But perhaps you could learn about "giveaways". No they were not environmentalist in the sense of the word that has developed from the '60's. But they sure understood their environment which afforded them to live centuries off of a land that oft killed early Europeans who came here...they dealt with harsh winters, foraged for food, cultivated agriculture, irrigated deserts, and hunted.

135 posted on 12/04/2001 2:29:58 PM PST by nancetc
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To: anothergrunt
to ignorant to invent agriculture does not make you an environmentalist.

That is essentially the point. When a society has five to six million square miles of resources to draw upon there is no need for environmentalist. Just how much asphalt do you think it took to pave an Indian village?

136 posted on 12/04/2001 7:15:36 PM PST by MosesKnows
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To: hinckley buzzard
What ever made you think "pollution" by paper and plastic comes anywhere near the despoliation caused by these primitive peoples?

Are you judging the Indians hunting methods? When the white settlers set about to cross the vast plains of the midwest it was not unusual for them to write about their encounter with the buffalo. Some recorded buffalo herds of such a size as to hold up a wagon train for three days while herds numbering in the millions passed. I would say that neither Mother Nature's grass fires nor the Indians diminished the herds beyond what the prairie grass could support.

If this is your idea of despoiliation of the land then about the only thing we agree upon is that they were primitive peoples.

137 posted on 12/04/2001 7:34:53 PM PST by MosesKnows
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To: nancetc
"Please, not everyone who clicks a name is responding to that particular person but clicking to post a response to the topic in general.
I do this frequently when posting, a response to a general topic comes to mind and I just click and post. Thanks for correction of spelling."

Point well taken, but normally I would post such a reply to the originator of the thread.
Since you did not address my response to you, am I to assume you didn't take issue with it?

-CD

138 posted on 12/05/2001 4:43:44 AM PST by Constitution Day
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To: Gumlegs
One thing must be kept in mind, however, and that is that this "good stewards of the Earth" is a lot of rubbish. Indian tribes lived in an area until its resources -- or the ones useful to them -- were exhausted, and then they moved on.

So, basically, they were the neolithic equivalent to the aliens in the movie Independence Day.

139 posted on 12/05/2001 5:02:48 AM PST by Wm Bach
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To: saradippity
I agree. I thought the post was very interesting. One of the best things about FR is "inside" dope like this. Just because no one replies doesn't mean no one cares.
140 posted on 12/05/2001 5:47:07 AM PST by allthingsnew
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