Posted on 11/29/2001 7:38:54 AM PST by hsmomx3
DITC Commentary: Ever wonder where all those "seed faith" dontations are going? Whose getting rich again? Remind me. It thought it was those people who sent in their seed faith donations who were going to get a "100 fold increase" and that they would be the ones buying luxury homes. What a shock to find out it doesn't work out that way! Duh!!!!
Televangelists JAN and PAUL CROUCH of the Costa Mesa-based Trinity Broadcasting Network have purchased a Newport Beach house for close to $5 million, Orange County Realtors say.
I did not say "I" hold someone to a higher standard. God does. And those in positions of authority, therefore, should hold themselves to this higher standard, as well. I am commanded, as a Christian, to look at my sisters/brothers' behavior and confront him, in love, if I believe what s/he may be saying or doing is causing others (believers or non-believers) to stumble. We are commanded to do this. It is not passing judgment. We, none of us, live in an island where our actions have no influence over others. If an issue is brought to a sister's or brother's attention, and they seek the Lord's will over what they have done and their conscience does not condemn them, fine. Ultimate judgment will be from God, who alone knows the motives of our hearts. I have a right as a Christian to make the statement that what the Crouchs have done is causing problems for others (their purchase of a $5 million home is a point of stumbling for other people). That is obvious with this thread. And if I were their friend or close associate, I would have brought this potential problem of their actions to their attention, not in anger or jealousy (which your insuations have falsely accused me of). And BTW, I don't do cafeteria style.
James 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
Matthew 7: (16) ""You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? (17) ""So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. (18) ""A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. (19) "" Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. (20) ""So then, you will know them by their fruits.
Romans 14:(10) You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. (11) It is written: "`As surely as I live,' says the Lord, `every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'" (12) So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. (13) Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. (14) As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. (15) If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. (16) Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. (17) For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, (18) because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. (19) Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. (20) Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.
[Food is only one example of what may cause someone else to stumble.] Luke 17:3 So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
Galatians 6: (1) Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. (2) Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
[This is a command within the Christian community to watch each other, not judge.] 1 Corinthians 5: (11) But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. (12) What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? (13) God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
Hebrews 5: (13) For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. (14) But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil. [We are commanded to discern good from evil, in all its forms.]
With all the slander going on in this thread it looks like you better move on.
I don't perceive what is being said as slanderous. What I see here are people who are having a problem with certain individuals in the ministry who ask others for donations to help others in their ministry and who somehow are able to buy a $5 million home. So far, everything you have said or advised has been your own opinions, not backed up by scripture. It also seems to me you are offended by people who question the Crouches' actions and who cannot understand why they felt it necessary to purchase such an elaborate home.
And, BTW, the posters here are not all my "brothers." My brothers are those "in Christ." Christians are directed to live lives that are beyond reproach so as not to cause others to stumble. You see, Christians are also held to higher standards. Why? Because we have the Holy Spirit living within and He is supposed to be directing our actions. Those who are not Christians do not have His power affecting what they do or what they say. They are also more ignorant of "how then we should live."
Actually, I think it's because of sin and an unrepentant heart. I know alot of atheists that are hypocritical... Is that why there's so many Christians? *chuckle*
The problem "I" have with the judgements here..are that they do so on the outward physical appearance of Jan Crouch, instead of searching out what the "Crouches" actually do...which is one of the reasons the Pharisees were offended by Jesus. He didn't follow "the norm". Paul doesn't dress weird, so they would accept him if he wasn't such a good businessman. BTW, the Crouches don't teach... they host. They invite teachers/preachers from all different faiths onto their program(s). Of course, you probably know this already.. if you've ever really watched. God chooses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise... right? :)
"Judas went out and hanged himself ... go therefore and do likewise".
I'm a bit perplexed here. Why is it that everyone thinks that the mainstream media is skewed and biased when they report about our politics... but they don't question their sources, intentions or bias.... when it refers to our ministers? :)
Typical response of someone confronted with Truth: Name-calling and ugliness. Perhaps a mirror would help.
I have not attacked her dress or makeup nor attacked them in any way, personally. I have watched their program. I believe they do love the Lord. My comments are on what I perceive, as represented in this thread, to be the root of the problem: what they have done, by purchasing a home so expensive, is caused others to question their sincerity. I have not questioned their sincerity. The scriptures I have quoted refer to Christians, leaders, teachers, leading by example because they are held to a higher standard (by God). We need to be sensitive and careful about what we do so it does not cause others to stumble. In their conscience, they may believe what they have done is okay. But it is obviously causing many people to question their motives. And that is the problem. Had they refrained from purchasing such an elaborate home, perhaps they would have given up something they would rather have, but then they wouldn't be having people question them--Christians and non-Christians. It isn't as if what they've done is a sin in and of itself, but it is creating a division (and I'm sure not just on this thread). Christ would have us act in ways that unite, not divide, leaving no room for attack. We are none of us perfect. And I bet if they realized this purchase would cause such a stir, they would have had second thoughts about going through with it.
And the "world" questions our existance because it offends them. *chuckle* It may offend many Christians who don't understand or even know what their motives were in buying this house (immediately jumping to conclusions that it has to be for evil/selfish purposes) My point remains that they are judging, criticizing, etc.... with only presumptions to go on....very little facts. As others have put forward... it could be an investment tactic. I'll wait til I hear the other side of the story before I get in a tizzy over it.
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