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Harry Potter vs. Gandalf
The Decent Films Guide ^ | 11/01 | Steven Greydanus

Posted on 11/29/2001 4:10:16 AM PST by Aquinasfan

In the last two months of this year, two of the most eagerly anticipted movies of 2001 will hit theaters. Both are the first in a projected series of films, adapted from the first volumes of two popular series of books written by British authors who go by their initials. Both series, and both films, deal with magic and wizardry. The authors, of course, are J. K. Rowling and J. R. R. Tolkien; and the films are Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone and The Fellowship of the Ring. The former, due in November, is the first of what will surely be a number of films based upon Rowling’s projected series of seven Harry Potter books; and the latter, coming Christmas, is the first of Peter Jackson’s series of three films based on Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings, slated for consecutive Christmas releases from 2001 to 2003.

Among many Christians, the coming of these two films is a herald of renewed debate. On the one hand, the works of Tolkien have been almost universally embraced by literate Christians, who have long recognized the richness and beauty of Tolkien’s Middle-earth as well as the profound influence of Tolkien’s Christian and Catholic faith upon the shape of his imaginary world. Christian fans of Tolkien also tend to be fans of C. S. Lewis, whose seven-volume series The Chronicles of Narnia is also a work of Christian imagination that involves magic and wizardry. The Harry Potter books, on the other hand, have met with decidedly mixed reactions among Christian readers. In both Catholic and Protestant circles, some have enthusiastically embraced Rowling’s popular series, at times even explicitly making comparisons to Tolkien and Lewis (at least as regards the use of magic and wizardry). Others, however, have attacked the young hero of Rowling’s series as a veritable poster child for the occult.

The quality of the discussion hit its lowest point with the advent of an ever-spreading email campaign based on facetious statements in a satirical essay in the Onion.com, a humor website. That essay, complete with made-up “quotes” from Rowling and her young readers (advocating the Church of Satan and mocking the death of Christ), has been mistakenly distributed as genuine reportage by innumerable Christians, achieving urban legend status. But even relatively sober arguments on the subject have too often been superficial, relying on guilt — or innocence — by association.

There’s something about Harry

Before plunging into the moral debate over the magic of Harry Potter, it’s worth noting that, in general terms, the Harry Potter stories have real merit as literature and entertainment, and perhaps social and moral merits as well (along with some moral drawbacks). They are well-written, lively, exciting, and quite funny, with vividly imagined creations and engaging characterizations. Moreover, although highly fantastical and imaginative, Rowling’s narratives are packed with knowledgable allusions and references to historical myths, legends, superstitions, and so forth, so seamlessly woven into the fabric of the narratives that even literate adults may not catch them all. Tie-in books with names like The Magical Worlds of Harry Potter offer readers insight into the cultural backgrounds of many elements in Rowling’s stories, potentially turning an exercise in entertainment and diversion into a genuine learning experience.

On a moral level, the Harry Potter books offer villains who are utterly odious and despicable, and protagonists who are, if not quite charitable or forbearing, at least brave and loyal. Courage and loyalty are, in fact, significant themes in the books, along with the evils of prejudice and oppression. Best of all, there are wise and competent adult authority-figures, especially brilliant and commanding Albus Dumbledore, Headmaster of Hogwarts School of Wizardry and Witchcraft, who inspires boundless confidence as being always in control of the situation, who virtually never makes a mistake, and whom no one can for long have at a disadvantage. (On the other hand, the series takes too long for my taste to get around to pointing out the problem of Harry’s repeated failures to avert potential disasters by not seeking help from Dumbledore as soon as possible.) And what of Harry himself? He’s a decent enough and likable fellow, with nothing of the bully or troublemaker in him. He’s not one to make an enemy — though, should someone make an enemy of him, Harry will make war on that person with every weapon at his disposal. The notion of turning the other cheek or using a soft answer to turn away wrath is completely foreign here; and even the more sober voices, such as that of his friend Hermione (whom Rowling has said of all her characters most resembles herself), generally caution Harry on purely prudential grounds, not moral ones. One aspect of the Harry Potter books that has raised some moral concern is the recurring theme of rule-breaking. Like many young children, Harry and his friends break a lot of rules (“about fifty,” Hermione figures at one point, and Dumbledore elsewhere reckons their transgressions at twice that number). Sometimes Harry is legitimately driven by necessity to break a rule; other times it’s only because he feels like it. Sometimes he is caught, sometimes not; sometimes he is punished, sometimes not. At first glance, this may seem like mere honest storytelling, depicting a typically imperfect young boy whose behavior sometimes leaves a bit to be desired. Yet closer examination reveals that Harry and his friends are only ever really punished for breaking rules when they’re caught by one of the nasty authority figures, particularly spiteful Professor Snape. When it’s one of the benevolent authority figures, such as genial Dumbledore, or even stern Professor McGonagall, there are no real consequences for breaking any number of rules, because Harry’s heart is in the right place, or because he is a boy of destiny, or something like that.

Another area of concern for some are the dark, scary, or grotesque elements in these stories: the Dementors, dreadful creatures almost as horrifying as Tolkien’s Nazgûl; a spell gone awry that leaves one of Harry’s friends coughing and choking on slugs issuing from his throat; a school washroom toilet apparently haunted by the ghost of a dead student; disembodied voices breathing murderous threats; anthropomorphic mandrake roots that look and scream like living human babies but may be transplanted or destroyed at will by teachers and students; and many others.

Taken altogether, it seems fair to say the Harry Potter stories are something of a mixed bag, with some genuinely worthwhile elements and some legitimate points of concern. Of course, for many parents who have children that love the books or who want to read them, the question may be not so much “Is this the best possible book my child could ever read?” as “Is this all right for my child to read? Or must I forbid it?”...

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TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
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To: MSCASEY
Glad to oblige...

Have you seen the symbol of Diana the crescent moon showing up more and more in England?

Not noticably, but then again I haven't really been looking. I presume you mean in general? It's always been there at Pagan/Wiccan things I've been to.

Do witches in your covens sometimes make jewelry to sell to support the covens?

Genrally in England, there's no need to 'support a coven'. Wiccans individually may make/sell jewellery for their own benefit, I suppose, but in no sense does a Coven involve anything that requires financial support from its members. We all bring wine/food along to an esbat or sabbat but that's about it! A Coven is not like a commune where resources are pooled, it's principally a group of like-minded friends meeting together on the old 'bring-a-bottle' basis.

Was she into Wicca or satan?

I have no idea. Perhaps neither? I can say with certainly the things you described her doing are nothing I've ever experienced in Wicca and I know nothing of Satanism. Perhaps she was simply a Goth chick being spooky for effect and attention... some of them do that, you know.

161 posted on 11/30/2001 7:30:59 AM PST by Da_Shrimp
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To: MSCASEY
nowhere NEAR as much as generated by foreign imports as 'Charmed' or 'Sabrina the Teenage Witch'

Just a little more on this: these 2 programmes, along with 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' (thanks, Willow!) have proved a major headache for Wiccans, at least over here in England, as we've been swamped by interest from women, particularly in the 18-30 age group.

I know this might not sound much of a problem, especially if you're a man ;-), but since Wicca operates in small groups and relies on a fairly even mix of sexes, it's a bit awkward. For example, 10 years ago, a talk on Wicca I attended was almost exactly 1:1 male:female, but at a course I helped run last year (and it was only as an 'interest' course, not recruitment), of 25 participants, 21 were female.

A further problem is that Wicca isn't really intended to be a 'mass appeal' religion, since we don't have a 'congregation' and we all take part in rituals: we can't do this with large groups, so where do we put people? Quite honestly I'd be very happy to see these programmes disappear off our screens altogether so we can have some peace and quiet!!

162 posted on 11/30/2001 7:44:58 AM PST by Da_Shrimp
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To: Da_Shrimp
Well, I'm off to Poland for a week tomorrow morning to visit the in-laws. If you have any more questions you want to ask, just FReepmail me and I'll pick 'em up when I get back!

Regards
Mike

163 posted on 11/30/2001 7:47:22 AM PST by Da_Shrimp
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I attended the Potter movie yesterday; the theater had my wife, her 18yr old daughter, me, and an elderly woman sitiing in the back who smiled through the entire flick. Here's an observation I came away with, if anyone's interested.

There is a scene close to the end of the movie where Harry confronts the epitome of evil and is told by this thing that there is no good and evil, only power. By the time this statement is uttered and in the context which it occurs, I would venture to guess that not 1% of viewers would see that statement as anything but the raving contradiction issued by evil incarnate, an absolute lie emant to confound Harry in order that evil have its way. The entire movie has offered the great good of friendship, loyalty, and bravery up to that point. In fact, Harry's friends have only just offered their selves as diversion to allow Harry the opportunity to complete what Jung would have called the heroic quest! And just so there's no lesson lost, at the end of the movie, Richard Harris (Albus Dumbledore, Wizard Headmaster of Hogwarts) teaches Harry that there is a magic of purest good, so unfathomable by the evil characters Harry has defeated that they had no inkling of its source or it power as it destroyed their evil intentions ... the love of Harry's mother that is so pervasive, it is spread into the very skin encompassing Harry's body! Ya know, that's a beautiful lesson to emphasize, for it is the body we possess that our mothers have nourished and provided via their own sacrificial life in pregnancy, then the mothering of chilhood (for US, not Harry, sadly, since the evil one murdered Harry's mother in his effort to murder the infant Harry). The contrast of the unloving Muggle aunt and uncle could not stand in greater contrast to what children long for! Use the contrast to teach your child.

So, what's my point? ... That Harry Potter is a golden opportunity for parents to get involved with their kids, to take advantage of the lessons just waiting emphasis from the parents. And what a vehicle those lessons have! Rowling is a talented creator of worlds which worlds will be remembered as equal to Narnia and Ring lands. How about we utilize the Potter stories to teach our kids, to get involved in their lives? Pottermania isn't going to go away, you can be sure of that, because the money to be made in the promotion of books and movies is too grand and the controllers of media will not relent until they've drained every ounce of cash from this cow. Take the Rowlings series for what it is, a grand imagination, and yes, a golden opportunity to get involved with your children and grandchildren, to use the scenes from Harry's adventures in teaching the great lessons needed for life! The reference to Nicolas Flamel and the 'sorcerer's stone' (it is called the Philosopher's Stone, historically) gave me an opportunity to have a long talk with my stepdaughter regarding the myths of elixir of life for the body and metaphor of Jesus as elixir of life for the soul!

One other thought. I think it is in Jeremiah(OT) that a measuring rod of God is used to measure the new Jerusalem. Jesus said He is the light of the world and so should we Christian in His earthly absence be also, as best we can be. As the world becomes less pious and more given to the lusts of the Adamic nature, the measuring rod must be applied in stronger and stronger light, for the veils accumulating to obfuscate the truth of good and evil grow more and more pervasive, evil grows more obscure but more prevalent. Harry Potter adventures are clear to the young, and the lessons we parents/grandparents can convey through these clear adventures can have a most enlightening effect on our beloved children in what I believe to be these the end times.

The next level of God's plan is coming; He will bring to pass. We ought prepare our children even as we recognize the living, breathing presence of evil arising in our midst. There isn't a Harry Potter story written that can lead a child into a life of evil sans the negligence of adults around that child. Use the force, folks. We can teach the good lessons through this fantastic series of adventures. The lesson of pornography should suffice to show, if we raise up our children in the way that they should go, though the world be filling with sexual lasciviousness, they will not succumb to it if raised properly. [Bill Clinton's momma neglected her son's raising, ya know?]

164 posted on 11/30/2001 8:36:54 AM PST by MHGinTN
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To: Victoria Delsoul; Aquinasfan; sirgawain; JMJ333; electron1; Caleb1411; logos; BibChr; proud2bRC...
PING)))))) to my feeble review in #164
165 posted on 11/30/2001 8:41:12 AM PST by MHGinTN
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To: MHGinTN
...contrast of the unloving Muggle aunt and uncle could not stand in greater contrast to what children long for!

I thinkI heard/read that they are portrayed as very religious, as Christian. Is that true?

Dan

166 posted on 11/30/2001 8:55:45 AM PST by BibChr
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To: MHGinTN
You make you point well, but I disagree.

Here's the problem. Just about any story must have some kind of battle of good vs. evil to hold the attention of the reader. In this case, the "good" vs. "evil" story is laid over a subtext of the normative use of occult means: witchcraft.

Both the "good" and "evil" characters are witches and wizards. Christians know that there is no such thing as a "good witch." Yet the children internalize the idea of a "good witch." Even worse, since the idea of a "good" witch is implicit in the story, the idea bypasses a child's already limited ability to examine an idea critically.

Yes, the story's occult practices are generally of the cartoon variety. But I don't find that acceptable, since Christians know that witchcraft is an abomination. And too, not all of the spells are sugar-coated. One of the bad guys severs his own arm and tosses it into a cauldron to render his spell efficacious. Pretty gruesome, and hard to dismiss as playful fun. Some people have argued that this is a clearly evil character. But this simply reinforces my argument. The child can easily conclude that some uses of witchcraft are "evil" while others are "good."

The author of this article makes this case very well. Take a look at the brief summary of his seven points.

167 posted on 11/30/2001 10:05:40 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: MHGinTN
That Harry Potter is a golden opportunity for parents to get involved with their kids, to take advantage of the lessons just waiting emphasis from the parents. And what a vehicle those lessons have! Rowling is a talented creator of worlds which worlds will be remembered as equal to Narnia and Ring lands.

Thanks for your post, Marvin. Like all great fantasy stories, Harry Potter has its psychological and moral complexities, but there is also chivalry, team spirit, heroes and friends. The images are vivid and it proceeds through a series of trials to a great confrontation concluding with a death and a climactic resolution. As you well said, Pottermania isn't going to go away, so why not make the best of Harry.

168 posted on 11/30/2001 10:26:44 AM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Victoria Delsoul
Dittobump, Vic!
169 posted on 11/30/2001 12:02:58 PM PST by MHGinTN
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To: BibChr
No, Dan, they are portrayed adequately as slobs, selfish, slobs that take pleasure in putting Harry down in their deep-seated fear of him.
170 posted on 11/30/2001 4:14:41 PM PST by MHGinTN
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To: MHGinTN
bump for later reading

Mange takk, MHG.

171 posted on 12/01/2001 5:53:30 AM PST by Caleb1411
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To: js1138; Aquinasfan
The fastest growing religion in America today is wicca....it is already established in England the home of Harry ...maybe that does not concern you....thats fine..but Harry is a recruitment film for kids..
172 posted on 12/03/2001 3:04:24 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
I agree with you on most issues, though not Harry Potter, but that's not my comment here. What I'm wondering here is that I'm always hearing that such-and-such is the 'fastest growing religion in America' - fill in the blank with Wicca, Islam, whatever. Are there any statistics to back up any of these claims?

Personally I think atheism is probably the fastest growing religion. That's the only religion government schools are really pushing - the other stuff is fringe.

173 posted on 12/03/2001 3:10:53 PM PST by JenB
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To: JenB
I find it very hard to understand how otherwise Christian parents would choose to expose their kids to something that is in opposition to Gods word..But I have given up on quoting scripture..too many that are bilnd and deaf..

My Pastor quoted that Sunday I will ask him his source

174 posted on 12/03/2001 3:16:13 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
Thank you; I assure you I was not trying to make fun of you or cast doubt on your truthfulness. I am astonished myself that many otherwise sensible adults would see demons behind a simple fairy tale. But then, there are Christians who see Satanism in the Chronicles of Narnia - not that the average Potter-hater is that loopy, certainly not you.

I think we can agree to disagree on this matter, and do it cordially, though I doubt you'll stop quoting your sources to me any more than I would quit countering your arguments as best I can. I am certain that you did a wonderful job raising your kids and that they are valuable members of society, and that they did indeed survive without Harry Potter. I am equally certain that neither I nor any of my siblings have been at all interested in the occult since reading Harry Potter. On the contrary, I have reread Tolkien and Lewis, as well as Rowling's true sources - Greek myth, Arthurian legend, and popular culture.

But then, I do not have a problem with role-playing games, science fiction, anime, or Star Wars movies, all of which have been condemned by various Christian organizations at some point or another. I think time will bear out my point of view, but if I'm wrong, I apologize in advance.

Thank you for responding to my post so courteously.

175 posted on 12/03/2001 5:14:42 PM PST by JenB
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To: cogitator
I saw The Fellowship of the Ring over the weekend. I enjoyed it. However, without reading the book(s), I think I would have been lost. It starts slowly, but it is a movie that I'll probably see again.
176 posted on 12/25/2001 10:49:03 PM PST by soapboxsallie
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