Posted on 11/29/2001 4:10:16 AM PST by Aquinasfan
Have you seen the symbol of Diana the crescent moon showing up more and more in England?
Not noticably, but then again I haven't really been looking. I presume you mean in general? It's always been there at Pagan/Wiccan things I've been to.
Do witches in your covens sometimes make jewelry to sell to support the covens?
Genrally in England, there's no need to 'support a coven'. Wiccans individually may make/sell jewellery for their own benefit, I suppose, but in no sense does a Coven involve anything that requires financial support from its members. We all bring wine/food along to an esbat or sabbat but that's about it! A Coven is not like a commune where resources are pooled, it's principally a group of like-minded friends meeting together on the old 'bring-a-bottle' basis.
Was she into Wicca or satan?
I have no idea. Perhaps neither? I can say with certainly the things you described her doing are nothing I've ever experienced in Wicca and I know nothing of Satanism. Perhaps she was simply a Goth chick being spooky for effect and attention... some of them do that, you know.
Just a little more on this: these 2 programmes, along with 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' (thanks, Willow!) have proved a major headache for Wiccans, at least over here in England, as we've been swamped by interest from women, particularly in the 18-30 age group.
I know this might not sound much of a problem, especially if you're a man ;-), but since Wicca operates in small groups and relies on a fairly even mix of sexes, it's a bit awkward. For example, 10 years ago, a talk on Wicca I attended was almost exactly 1:1 male:female, but at a course I helped run last year (and it was only as an 'interest' course, not recruitment), of 25 participants, 21 were female.
A further problem is that Wicca isn't really intended to be a 'mass appeal' religion, since we don't have a 'congregation' and we all take part in rituals: we can't do this with large groups, so where do we put people? Quite honestly I'd be very happy to see these programmes disappear off our screens altogether so we can have some peace and quiet!!
Regards
Mike
There is a scene close to the end of the movie where Harry confronts the epitome of evil and is told by this thing that there is no good and evil, only power. By the time this statement is uttered and in the context which it occurs, I would venture to guess that not 1% of viewers would see that statement as anything but the raving contradiction issued by evil incarnate, an absolute lie emant to confound Harry in order that evil have its way. The entire movie has offered the great good of friendship, loyalty, and bravery up to that point. In fact, Harry's friends have only just offered their selves as diversion to allow Harry the opportunity to complete what Jung would have called the heroic quest! And just so there's no lesson lost, at the end of the movie, Richard Harris (Albus Dumbledore, Wizard Headmaster of Hogwarts) teaches Harry that there is a magic of purest good, so unfathomable by the evil characters Harry has defeated that they had no inkling of its source or it power as it destroyed their evil intentions ... the love of Harry's mother that is so pervasive, it is spread into the very skin encompassing Harry's body! Ya know, that's a beautiful lesson to emphasize, for it is the body we possess that our mothers have nourished and provided via their own sacrificial life in pregnancy, then the mothering of chilhood (for US, not Harry, sadly, since the evil one murdered Harry's mother in his effort to murder the infant Harry). The contrast of the unloving Muggle aunt and uncle could not stand in greater contrast to what children long for! Use the contrast to teach your child.
So, what's my point? ... That Harry Potter is a golden opportunity for parents to get involved with their kids, to take advantage of the lessons just waiting emphasis from the parents. And what a vehicle those lessons have! Rowling is a talented creator of worlds which worlds will be remembered as equal to Narnia and Ring lands. How about we utilize the Potter stories to teach our kids, to get involved in their lives? Pottermania isn't going to go away, you can be sure of that, because the money to be made in the promotion of books and movies is too grand and the controllers of media will not relent until they've drained every ounce of cash from this cow. Take the Rowlings series for what it is, a grand imagination, and yes, a golden opportunity to get involved with your children and grandchildren, to use the scenes from Harry's adventures in teaching the great lessons needed for life! The reference to Nicolas Flamel and the 'sorcerer's stone' (it is called the Philosopher's Stone, historically) gave me an opportunity to have a long talk with my stepdaughter regarding the myths of elixir of life for the body and metaphor of Jesus as elixir of life for the soul!
One other thought. I think it is in Jeremiah(OT) that a measuring rod of God is used to measure the new Jerusalem. Jesus said He is the light of the world and so should we Christian in His earthly absence be also, as best we can be. As the world becomes less pious and more given to the lusts of the Adamic nature, the measuring rod must be applied in stronger and stronger light, for the veils accumulating to obfuscate the truth of good and evil grow more and more pervasive, evil grows more obscure but more prevalent. Harry Potter adventures are clear to the young, and the lessons we parents/grandparents can convey through these clear adventures can have a most enlightening effect on our beloved children in what I believe to be these the end times.
The next level of God's plan is coming; He will bring to pass. We ought prepare our children even as we recognize the living, breathing presence of evil arising in our midst. There isn't a Harry Potter story written that can lead a child into a life of evil sans the negligence of adults around that child. Use the force, folks. We can teach the good lessons through this fantastic series of adventures. The lesson of pornography should suffice to show, if we raise up our children in the way that they should go, though the world be filling with sexual lasciviousness, they will not succumb to it if raised properly. [Bill Clinton's momma neglected her son's raising, ya know?]
I thinkI heard/read that they are portrayed as very religious, as Christian. Is that true?
Dan
Here's the problem. Just about any story must have some kind of battle of good vs. evil to hold the attention of the reader. In this case, the "good" vs. "evil" story is laid over a subtext of the normative use of occult means: witchcraft.
Both the "good" and "evil" characters are witches and wizards. Christians know that there is no such thing as a "good witch." Yet the children internalize the idea of a "good witch." Even worse, since the idea of a "good" witch is implicit in the story, the idea bypasses a child's already limited ability to examine an idea critically.
Yes, the story's occult practices are generally of the cartoon variety. But I don't find that acceptable, since Christians know that witchcraft is an abomination. And too, not all of the spells are sugar-coated. One of the bad guys severs his own arm and tosses it into a cauldron to render his spell efficacious. Pretty gruesome, and hard to dismiss as playful fun. Some people have argued that this is a clearly evil character. But this simply reinforces my argument. The child can easily conclude that some uses of witchcraft are "evil" while others are "good."
The author of this article makes this case very well. Take a look at the brief summary of his seven points.
Thanks for your post, Marvin. Like all great fantasy stories, Harry Potter has its psychological and moral complexities, but there is also chivalry, team spirit, heroes and friends. The images are vivid and it proceeds through a series of trials to a great confrontation concluding with a death and a climactic resolution. As you well said, Pottermania isn't going to go away, so why not make the best of Harry.
Mange takk, MHG.
Personally I think atheism is probably the fastest growing religion. That's the only religion government schools are really pushing - the other stuff is fringe.
My Pastor quoted that Sunday I will ask him his source
I think we can agree to disagree on this matter, and do it cordially, though I doubt you'll stop quoting your sources to me any more than I would quit countering your arguments as best I can. I am certain that you did a wonderful job raising your kids and that they are valuable members of society, and that they did indeed survive without Harry Potter. I am equally certain that neither I nor any of my siblings have been at all interested in the occult since reading Harry Potter. On the contrary, I have reread Tolkien and Lewis, as well as Rowling's true sources - Greek myth, Arthurian legend, and popular culture.
But then, I do not have a problem with role-playing games, science fiction, anime, or Star Wars movies, all of which have been condemned by various Christian organizations at some point or another. I think time will bear out my point of view, but if I'm wrong, I apologize in advance.
Thank you for responding to my post so courteously.
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