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Thanks Mary Ann. Don't worry I always stay close to the faith. I believe very strongly in the value system and the basic good that value system can mean for people. What I don't believe in are the more mystical aspects (could also be related to finding out just how bogus the occult is, once you work your way through debunking one brand of spiritualism). Except for the actually going to church and praying and stuff I'm right there with the Christian duties (my Christian Coalition coworker (who's the guy that turned me onto FR) says I score better on their Christian Values test than a lot of folks in Congress that claim to have the faith, it's one of our points of humor) of kindness, charity, loyalty, honor (you know, 7 out of the 10 commandments). And I still care about the faith and I'm with you guys on a lot of issues (the ACLU censorship things make my blood boil). Stay well, I'm with you. Joe

Joe, I care enough about you to tell you the truth..if you died tonight,unless you have come to the cross you would not go to heaven.I do not say that to be unkind or hurtful..but it is what the bible tells us..

We do not go to heaven because we are nice people,or good people,or because we deserve it..

We are so full of sin that the only way for God to allow us into His Holy Sinless presence was for Him to come down here in person and to pay the price for our sins Himself.The Bible tells us that we are all sinners ,and when God looks down on us He see filthy rags filled with a womans monthly discharge..rags covered with the pus of lepers.

So I could be very nice in a worldly kind of way and tell you as your friend did that you are "better" than some of the coalition men he knows .....but the one difference may be that when God looks at those men He sees the blood of His Son covering their filth...unless you have confessed your sins and sought the forgivness of Christ..and unless you have acknowleged your need for a Savior..and asked Christ into your heart..it will not matter one bit how "nice" you are.

Contrary to "popular" opinion here...I do not see myself as some "special" person.....but as I am a filthy rag pulled from the fire by Jesus Christ.....one that needs Him daily..to love and forgive her...

We do not go to heaven because we are nice people,or good people,or because we deserve it.

Which, of course, is one of my other basic problems with religion in general. According to this, a rather standard philosophy, any one that lived and died before Christianity got to their neck of the woods is burning in hell regardless of the quality of life they led. By this belief had Mother Theresa been born a Bhudist and never left her faith, yet done all the saintly things she did she's in hell right now; according to this if the Protestants are right and the Catholic Church has lost it's way and no longer represents God's will she's burning in hell right now. Quite frankly I cannot worship a God that makes those rules, there's no possible way I could accept Him as omnibenevolent. I'd rather take my chances that if there is a God He cares more about your deeds among men than how much time you spent in the right church saying the right prayers.