A Contrast Between Mohammed and Christ

Names are of men, not of God.

If you were making love to your sig. ot. and she suddenly screamed "Oh, ArGee!", would you accept from her that she was really thinking of you the whole time and just used a different name for you? (Please accept the analogy even if I got the sex of you and your lover wrong.)

The name of G-d which I will not write here was revealed by G-d to Moses. It wasn't something Moses made up while he was sitting in a cave meditating upon the nature of the creator. G-d interrupted Moses in his daily life with a dazzling display of His supernatural power to give Moses a revelation of who He is. He was dramatic so that Moses wouldn't confuse what he had seen with a personal meditation or vision or dream. Moses was to be convinced that he had just had an encounter with the G-d of all and that encounter was to change Moses' life. Part of that revelation was His name. The rest of that was His character. G-d did not reveal His whole character to Moses, not even during the subsequent decades they worked together, because G-d's whole character is infinite and none of us will ever understand it all. But G-d did reveal facets of His character that distinguished Him from the man-made gods of that or any other time so that Moses, and we, could know the difference.

The Hindu model of G-d as whatever you can ascertain Him to be is incomplete, and G-d Himself has shown it to be incomplete. The G-d of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jesus is unlike any god ever invented by the mind of man. Some of the religions that have stood the test of time have borrowed facets of the Hebrew G-d, and Mohammed and Joseph Smith plagarized His revelation heavily when they remade Him in their own image. But He is unlike any of the man-made gods, completely set apart, completely other. We call that "holy."

There are similarities among the world's great religions. This is proof that they all stem from the days of Noah, who knew G-d personally. If you only look at the similarities you will have reason to think we all worship the same G-d. But if we worshipped the same G-d we wouldn't see similarities and differences. We would see the same thing. G-d doesn't change, not even when we change perspective.

One of the most amazing things about the Bible is that it presents a consistent view of a consistent G-d, even though written over a time span of 1500+ years, 40 authors from all walks of life, and from times when G-d moved very differently among men. Yet with all of that it presents a coherent view of One G-d, One Plan, One Salvation, and One Future.

You can claim that G-d = Allah = Brahma = Great Spirit = Goddess = whatever you like. Ultimately, you won't have to convince me, you will have to convince Him. Between now and then, if you want my advice, I suggest you look a little harder.

Seek the LORD while He may be found. (Isaiah 55:6)

Shalom.

I agree. That's why I live, by choice, in the hills of Virginia, far away from cities. It is very quiet out here, and much easier to know God in the silence. Prayer and meditation are the way to know God.

I agree except you also need His revelation. You can only know of Him what He chooses to reveal. He is far beyond your ability to grasp Him just by prayer and meditation. The Hindus have tried that approach and keep creating new ones.

Shalom.

Food for thought, eh?

God chooses to reveal to me what He reveals to me, and to you what He chooses to reveal to you.

I have bad news for you. That isn't G-d. G-d doesn't want us fighting among each other so He doesn't give us private revelations. Of course, we fight among each other regardless but that is our fault, not His. His goal is that we know Him as a people, not as a group of individuals. There is only one G-d and only one revelation of Him and He gives it to all of us willingly and lovingly so that we may be united behind our love of Him.

There are imposters. Their desire is that you not worship G-d. They are disguised as angels of light but their real desire is to spread darkness. They dress up their stories with lofty sounding words and ideas but their only goal is our destruction. We have been warned both by revelation and by their fruits. We ignore that warning at our peril.

Shalom.

Oh, and I like the idea of you not judging people. You should follow it. You have been awfully judgemental of people like Jerry Falwell on this thread.

I love these lists! They are a great exercise for believers in the truth of the scriptures. Usually when one looks into lists such as these, it is found that either the one who posts it has no real awareness of the context and validity of each reference, or is aware and seeks to deliberately deceive.

In about an hour, I went through two thirds or so of it. Some examples -

He created evil. None of the verses referenced actually say that God CREATED evil, but for the sake of argument, the existence of evil is a natural byproduct of the existence of free will. In order for God to allow us to make choices, He also must allow those choices to be bad, or free will cannot operate truthfully. We can choose to love and obey God, or we can choose not to do so. With regard to the verses cited, they are mostly about God punishing Israel, and basically indicate that God knows all, God untimately controls all, and God uses evil for good - Rom 8:28.

He deceived. The verses in Jeremiah are Jeremiah talking - Jeremiah feels that God deceived him - big difference than God actually deceiving. And 15:8 is way too vague to even legitimately cite at all. There is a prevailing theme in God's "deceit" - throughout the OT and NT we find a number of people who through their own evil acts and/or choices, are deceived. Ahab in 2 Chronicles is deceived because he didn't want the truth. If he had been listening to God and His prophet who told the truth rather than the false prophet who only told him nice things, he wouldn't have been deceived by the lying spirit - see verse 7. Same with the 2 Thess reference - because these people refused to be obedient and deliberately chose evil, God allowed them to participate in their own demise. He "gave them up" to their sin - Rom 1:24-25.

He ordered men to be drunken. Now this is a truly ridiculous one. The specific verse referenced is the following -

Jeremiah 25:27 Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you.

IT IS FIGURATIVE. Go back to verse 15 -

Jeremiah 25:15 For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.

Cup of fury? The only cup of fury I have ever tasted was grain alcohol back in college. Do you think God meant that? :) HELLO. The author of this list is really counting on people to take his word for it.

He ordered stealing. Both references for this one - Ezekiel 39:10 and Exodus 3:22 - are dealing with vengeance and compensation. Another stretch.

By the way, the claims that He made false prophesies, was indecisive, and changed his mind are also easily refuted with examination of context.

He ordered the taking of a harlot. Yes, He sure did. God told Hosea to marry a prostitute, knowing that she would have a real hard time being faithful to him. He did so to indicate to Hosea His love for Israel, which God considered to be His bride. God knows that Israel will disappoint Him time and time again, always returning to her harlot ways, but God always ultimately forgives and restores her, as He required Hosea to do with his wife as well. What a love story! Great picture of God's love for Isreal, as well as the rest of us sinners, and He used this as a lasting testament for all of us. And the problem with this one is what exactly? Small aside - a Christian writer named Francine Rivers wrote a great novel called Redeeming Love loosely based on the book of Hosea.

He killed. Once again, the point is? Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord, and the wages of sin is death. The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, etc.

,b>He ordered killing. Verses cited are Leviticus 26:7, and Numbers 25:4-5. First Leviticus - the whole passage is about God's covenant with Israel and what He will do for them. The first 9 verses are as follows -

Leviticus 26:1-9, "Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God. Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD. If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely. And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land. And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.(verse cited) And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword. For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you."

So if reviewed in context, this says that God will make Israel victorious over her enemies, even when she is vastly outnumbered. Interesting modern implications, don't you think? Each time Israel has been attacked, the odds of victory have been overwhelmingly against her, yet she comes out on top every time. Imagine that.

By the way, God DID order Israel and/or her leaders to kill in battle or to punish a number of times. What exactly is the problem with that? The instance in Numbers is punishment for worshipping false gods.

He had a temper. My first response to this one was DUH. But then I thought some clarity was needed. God does not "have a temper" - this modern phrase implies a presence of irrationality or uncontrolled response. God exhibits His wrath in a very calculated, measured fashion. His anger is righteous anger, and is evident no more often than His forgiveness and grace. I have no problem with God being angry. The God of the Bible is a just God, and MUST show displeasure in the face of sin and disobedience, or He would not be Jehovah.

He played favorites. These references deal directly with God's choosing of Israel to be the harbinger and the catalyst for the Messiah. But this recognition came with great responsibility. They were also called a peculiar people, a set apart people, and God expected much of them. Not only were they to be blessed by God, but their covenant of God required them to be held to a very high standard. They needed to obey Him, follow Him, trust Him no matter how grim things might appear. Yep, tis true - God selected Israel to be His chosen people, and called them such a number of times. And as a result, they have been maligned throughout history in an unprecedented, unreasonable fashion. How would YOU like to be chosen of God for a specific purpose that all hell attempted to thwart over and over again for thousands of years? Has it been easy for the house of Israel? Some chosen people - they might argue that they have been chosen for death and destruction, persecution and prejudice. What fun.

In the first reference, God says that He chose them not because they were great, but because they were small, the least of all people on the earth. That's how He operates - He takes the worst, the least, the most useless, and makes it over for His glory. How do you explain the tenacity of the Jews? Why are they even around today at all, considering the countless nations that are not? God said they would never disappear as a people, and would be regathered as a nation once again, and they most certainly have been, against all odds.

That's a good place to stop, IMO. If you would like me to address any other specific claims, please feel free to call them to my attention. And if you would like to discuss why God is real and His Word can be trusted, FReepmail me anytime.

What'd ya mean? There are many more IS'S than WAS's!! :-)

It wasn't a new religion, just a course correction for the worship of G-d by His people.

Absolutely correct! In fact, you spook me a little in that you would make this point. It is pivitol, in my opinion, to a clearer understanding of Christ.

Ah, silly me. I completely skipped over the claims that God is neither omniscient nor omnipresent. They are easily refuted as well.

The first two references regarding omniscience make NO sense as examples. Perhaps you would explain to me why they are included. And 2 Chronicles 32:31 - "know" indicates "expose." God already knows the heart, and often "tries" us so that WE will know our own hearts - see Psalm 139:23-24, "Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting." No credible references here. Please find a better one.

Regarding omnipresence - God could appear physically, spiritually, in specific places and everywhere at the same time. The whole of scripture bears this out. Much of the language is figurative, and much of His "presence" and "appearing specifically" are for man's benefit in order to interact with God - they are NOT mutually exclusive. For example, Moses met Him on the mount. God went down to see what was going on at Babel. He wrestled with Jacob. God was the Captian of the Host before Joshua, and appeared to Gideon. And the list goes on. It's called a theophanic appearance - study the Angel of the Lord - fascinating. At the same time, God's being all-knowing and all-seeing are heralded many other places. Read ALL of Psalm 139, which happens to be my favorite.

It is much easier to understand the Bible if you know the author. Do you know Him?

I am a Christian. Jesus is my savior. I was raised orthodox, and find my closest ties to the anabaptists.

You raise several points -- more than I wish to address. My posting was a response to an individual choosing to call me an idiot. I find such a response to be less than ideally "Christian". Finding such a response in a thread dedicated to "Christian behavior" adds yet another layer of irony. I randomly picked the scriptural reference from the original posting to illustrate the poster's own un-Christ-like behavior as well as to illustrate an aspect of Christ's personality -- an aspect dedicated to turning the other cheek rather than lashing out in violence when one is attacked. That the original author of the posting would use the same reference to justify violence against others... well, it seems that the world has gone mad. (or perhaps madder?)

When you said it was a bad translation, I reverted to the King James, and reading on a few verses in Romans 12, I came to this...

14 Bless them that persecute you; bless, and curse not. 15 Rejoice with those that rejoice, weep with those that weep. 16 Have the same respect one for another, not minding high things, but going along with the lowly: be not wise in your own eyes: 17 recompensing to no one evil for evil: providing things honest before all men: 18 if possible, as far as depends on you, living in peace with all men; 19 not avenging yourselves, beloved, but give place to wrath; for it is written, Vengeance [belongs] to me, *I* will recompense, saith the Lord. 20 If therefore thine enemy should hunger, feed him; if he should thirst, give him drink; for, so doing, thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head. 21 Be not overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

I'd be interested in your comments on the passage.

Mohammed - Christ

Old Testament - New Testement

Mohammad said a lot of things - he lived a long life - too long. Some of the other things he said about Jews and Christians are not too kindly and the record of his followers in using the sword to convert Christians and unbelievers is not a good one.

I "BUMP" the original poster. That old liar Mohammad should rot in his Islamic paradise.

Absolutely correct! In fact, you spook me a little in that you would make this point. It is pivitol, in my opinion, to a clearer understanding of Christ.

I'm sorry I spooked you. I've been studying the Jewish Roots of Christianity for about seven years now. I was introduced to them by Dwight Pryor and the Center for Judaic-Christian Studies (www.jcstudies.com). It's fascinating. And you are correct, it really opens your eyes to what Yeshua was doing.

Shalom.

I'd be interested in your comments on the passage.

You'd probably be more interested in my apology for misreading your post. I misunderstood you to be suggesting that we should not fight back against the terrorists. You were very likely correct to "redirect" the passions of a person calling you an idot.

As for the passage, "be at peace with all men" is better. Peace is not simply the absence of conflict but the restoration of G-d's order. That's why I always sign "Shalom" rather than "Peace." Peace is a pansy word for the real thing. Sometimes shalom will only be established by brute force. Sometimes it is established by forgiveness. Sometimes it is estabished by turning the other cheek. It is always established by G-d.

Please forgive me, brother.

Shalom.

Of course God gives us private revelations. Otherwise, we must ONLY listen to established authority.

I think it's agree to disagree time. G-d does give personal revelations, but not private ones and not revelations that conflict with the revelations He has given to someone else.

The other extreme from ONLY listening to established authority is to ONLY listen to ourselves. If you ask me, the latter poses the much greater danger and has done far more to destroy the church than any established authority.

Shalom.

We must get down to the nubbins of this so-called religion of Islam. It is indeed an evil that has spread around the world, far worse than any virus you can think of, and far more hateful. It's Freddy Kruger with a beard on steroids.

I do not have any answers, but I ask my self how would Christ react?

How would Christ react to modern-day Christians in America?

How would Christ react to terrorists killing thousands of innocents?

How would Christ react to terrorists mailing anthrax?

How would Christ react to American muslims practicing Islam?

How would Christ react to the bombing of Afghanistan?

How would Christ react to patriotism?

How would Christ react to killing people because they are not Christians?

How would Christ react to Christians eagerly calling for the use of nuclear weapons to be used agains millions of innocents?

Again, I reinforce, I do not have the answers.

You are such a silly person...READ THE BIBLE....says so in the BOOK OF REVELATION...JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD RETURNS TRIUMPH and sends the anti-christ to hell!!

Hey, nice name you have for a muslim LOVER!! hog....waller!!

mohammed...the fore-runner of the anti-christ...bothers you doesn't it...YOU being a muslim-lover and all....