America went over the top regarding Pollard

Personal Opinion | Solmar_israel

[solmar_israel]

I just wanted some of your thoughts regarding an opinion of mine on the Pollard mess. Here are a few points to consider.

1. Pollard struck a plea bargain with the prosecution and thus cooperated fully. At the last moment, they changed the deal right before sentencing. This is legally questionable and morally reprehensible. It projects poorly on the American judicial system.

2. No one here seems to be confronting two basic facts:

A. America continuously spies on Israel, as Israel does on America. It is part of the "game".

B. America was bound by agreements with Israel (prior to the beginning of the Gulf War) to turn over to Israel information it had regarding the targeting of Israeli cities by Saddam. This was in return for Israels waiver of its most basic right of self-defense. America cheated one of its most loyal allies and didn't turn over much of the information. Most of what Pollard stole was information that America had 'pledged' to provide Israel but did not due to political considerations. Pollard himself stated that it was this very fact that motivated him to do what he did.

3. Other spies who stole more sensitive information for Communist countries who were not allies but enemies, got shorter sentences.

4. And as a last note, in regards to Israel passing this information to China, I don't believe there has been any proof of that statement. Also, keep in mind that China's biggest arms supplier is the United States (thanks to Klintoon) and that America arms the most horrible dictatorships in the Middle East which have a very good probability of ending up in a war with Israel using their American weapons.

5. Allies spy on eachother. This is how international relations work. This is what America does. When one messes up, you settle it behind the scenes and squeeze concessions, like has always been done in the past. You do this because you know you do the same and in the end you have respect for your allies. Regarding Pollard I believe, America went over the top with that one.

By the way, I am an American and an Israeli, and I love and believe in both countries with all my heart. I would not hesitate for a second to give my life for either country in a second because I believe they both represent everything good in this world. And these days, good seems to be hard to come by...

[solmar_israel]

I just wanted to know what some of your opinions are on this topic...

Best Regards.

[Tom_Busch]

B. America was bound by agreements with Israel (prior to the beginning of the Gulf War) to turn over to Israel information it had regarding the targeting of Israeli cities by Saddam. This was in return for Israels waiver of its most basic right of self-defense. America cheated one of its most loyal allies and didn't turn over much of the information. Most of what Pollard stole was information that America had 'pledged' to provide Israel but did not due to political considerations. Pollard himself stated that it was this very fact that motivated him to do what he did.

I have heard that before, but didn't no whether or not to believe it. If you have any online sources, please post them. Shalom!

[waxhaw]

I'm somewhat confused as the Pollard I know of was caught, convicted and sentenced long before the Gulf War but the one you're writing about seems to have been active subsequent to the Gulf War. It seems as well that you're using as an excuse the same excuse the media used on Clinton... "everybody does it so what's the harm". The fact is, Pollard is not an Israeli citizen, he is an American. He swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. He betrayed that oath and he betrayed his nation. Whether or not information he stole made it to the Soviet Union is irrelevant - Pollard turned against his nation which had placed him in a position of trust. And he betrayed America not for ideology, but for money. Pollard is not being treated any worse than any other American who became a traitor.

[monocle]

Pollard committed espionage, the worst crime anyone can commit against his country, and deserves what he got. If you are not willing to do the time, don't commit the crime.

Since you are seeking opinions, let me have your opinion on this scenario. The US is seeking to hold together an alliance, including Arab countries, and Israel for what she sees as defensive measures is following policies which may jeopardize the alliance against terror. If some Israeli forwarded information to the CIA or other USA intelligence agency to prevent Israel from taking an action deemed to be in its own self interest, how should Israeli courts deal with this matter, taking into account the friendly relationship between the US and Israel?

[jpthomas]

Jonathan Pollard is a U.S. citizen who committed espionage against this country. He's lucky he didn't receive the death sentence.

[wretchard]

Johnathan Pollard's treachery was worse because it was committed by a "friend". From an enemy it would be expected. America can live without Israel, but Israel cannot exist without America and should remember that fact the next time it stabs the United States in the back.

Both sides spy on each other, you say? Israel opens fire on whoever it considers a threat to it's security. Ask the sailors on the USS Liberty. The Stars and Stripes afforded no protection. Why should the Israeli flag protect Israel? And before you forget the fact, (or is it unimportant?) Jonathan Pollard was an American citizen. You may regard him as anything you please, but that does not alter the fact that he knowingly betrayed his country, with malice aforethought. The fact that he is Jewish does not merit him a "get out of jail card".

He deserves to rot in jail.

[magoo_70115]

It is very simple, you dumb schmuck. Pollard made a decision to spy against his country for another nation and he got caught. Now, he must pay the price. It is generally referred to as being responsible for one's actions; sometimes it is referred to as cause and effect. I think a more contemporary statement of advice is "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime." Best regards.

[Non-Sequitur]

It's a bit hypocritical to wring your hands and cry about Pollard while not mentioniong Mordechai Vanunu. For those not familiar with him he is the one who leaked Israeli nuclear secrets to the British press. Israeli agents kidnapped him in Rome and hauled him back to Israel where he spent 12 years in solitary. In both cases you have men to gave their country's secrets to a friendly nation and yet you cry about Pollard and leave Vanunu to rot.

[Patria One]

Solmar states_"By the way, I am an American and an Israeli,"

That seems to be the explanation .

[Non-Sequitur]

Solmar states_"By the way, I am an American and an Israeli,"

So was Pollard. That's what got him in the fix he is in.

[solmar_israel]

You seem to have ignored the point I was trying to make, I guess you were too busy calling me a shmuk.

You didn't respond to the fact that America withhelp information from Israel that it had promised in return for the waiver of Israels right to sell defence.

Second, lets not even bring up the Liberty, because everyone here basically talks out their as$ on that one. Israel didn't do it intentionally, multiple international commissions concluded that, leave your conspiracy theories for someone else.

I agree that Pollard is a traitor to America, however, the question was, why was he sentenced (and why was the sentenced changed at the last moment despite the plea bargain) so harshly in comparisson to other spies. If you don't think he was, just compare his sentence to those of communist spies.

I think it is to simple and childish to simply answer by saying, Israel owes its existence to America, America doesn't to Israel.

We all know America gets plenty from Israel for its 3 billion. Intelligence, a fortress in the middle east, a democratic ally, the attack on Saddams nuke plant in 1981 (how many American lives were saved by Saddam not being Nuclear in the Gulf War)... etc... especially considering what America gets for its money in other parts of the world.

and then their is that whole 'ideology' issue as well, although for some of you that stopped being important a long time ago.

I agree that Israel would treat spies harshly too, but i'm just saying that in past incidents (like when Americans were caught spying in Israel) things were settled behind the scenes (kind of like 'out of court'). I'm just saying this should have been no different.

[O6ret]

Pollard is a traitor, pure and simple. We should not be spending the $100/day it costs to keep him alive. He should have receieved the death sentance and been executed.

[solmar_israel]

I think the Vannunu issue is different.

Had an American stole Israels nuclear plans, after Israel had promised to turn them over to America and failed to do so, I would recommend Israel do the same thing that America should have done with Pollard.

Quietly arrest the American, keep him in jail for a while, squeeze some armaments out of America, and settle it behind the scenes.

Just as America should have imprisioned Pollard for a while, kept the incident quiet, and squeezed whatever concessions out of Israel it deemed appropriate.

That is the way it has ALWAYS been done by both sides, and I think it set a dangerous precident to break that understanding.

We all know allies spy, that's life, America is no exception, but you deal with it differently then with enemies.

[xJones]

Don't expect to get Pollard out. He is an American spy. Any problems about the U.S. not releasing data should have been handled diplomatically, not by a PAID spy.

BTW, I support Israel as a Christian, I just can't stand Benedict Arnolds who sell out their country for money.

[carlo3b]

Torpedo hole as seen from drydock in Malta

This web site is dedicated to the memory of thirty-four fine young men 
who gave their lives on June 8, 1967, defending the USS Liberty
against a sustained air and sea attack by the armed forces of the State of Israel

During the Six Day War between Israel and the Arab States, the American intelligence ship USS Liberty was attacked for 75 minutes in international waters by Israeli aircraft and motor torpedo boats. Thirty-four men died and 171 were wounded.

 The attack has been a matter of controversy ever since. Survivors and many key government officials including Secretary of State Dean Rusk and former JCS Chairman Admiral Thomas Moorer say it was no accident. Israel and its supporters insist it was a "tragic case of misidentification" and charge that the survivors are either lying or too emotionally involved to see the truth.

 Israel claims they mistook our ship for the out-of-service Egyptian horse carrier El Quseir and that we brought the attack upon ourselves by operating in a war zone without displaying a flag. Not so. We were in international waters, far from any fighting, and flew a bright, clean, new American flag. The flag we flew is on display at the National Cryptologic Museum, Fort Meade, Maryland and can be seen there, or in the USS Liberty Images Archive.

 Our commanding officer, Captain William Loren McGonagle, received the Congressional Medal of Honor for conspicuous gallantry and intrepedity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty during the attack. The Congressional Medal of Honor is the highest award our country can bestow. To avoid embarrassing our attackers, Captain McGonagle's Medal of Honor was presented in a quiet ceremony in the Washington Navy Yard instead of in the White House by the President as is customary.

 The USS Liberty Web Page presents part of the story along with some historical information and links to other sources.
 

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[Joe Boucher]

Stupid person, get a new cause. Pollard is a spy. It doesn't matter what entity he spied for, he sold out the U.S. for a foreign country. He should have been shot. Pollard should be pushing up weeds now instead of being a reason for dummies to be working on his behalf. Isreal is a leach that takes and takes and takes and what do they do in return? They knowingly attack our ship, demand more aid money and complain. We have been their biggest supporters since it's birth and this is what we got. I tire of the isrealis and their troubles.

[carlo3b]

You seemed confused, but interested in the facts, perhaps this will enlighten you, here is an active link......DUH!!

[xJones]

Are you really an Israeli? The stupidest thing a real Israeli could do would be to bring up the Pollard issue. We consider Pollard an American traitor, short and simple. Where are you coming from?

[DreamWeaver]

he should have been shot a long time ago - what does israel do to spies?

Double Ditto's.

I wonder many times why the heck does this subject keep coming up on Pollard. Can't people accept the fact that he is sentenced and is paying the time, period !! Let it go already, sheesh !!!