Info on Smallpox vaccine for freepers

Centers for Disease Control ^ | Bones

[bonesmccoy]

Just wanted to leave you all some info on Vaccinia vaccination. Basically, last I heard the small pox immunization was not being produced in the USA. There was a report today that DOD has ordered supplies from UK. Frankly, I don't know how the UK could be producing the vaccine. The only known stockpiles of the virus (after World Health Organization/UN announced eradication of the virus from Earth) were in the US and USSR. If a UK company is making vaccine, what is in the vaccine?

The old vaccine was produced using techniques that would not be licensed or approved today. So, the stockpile doesn't meet current specs. Also, my info was that the stockpile is about 20 years old.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not about to use 20-year-old vaccine in my practice without knowing that the vaccine was needed. I certainly would not use it in our children, unless I was convinced that a threat exists.

I do have the scar from the smallpox vaccine on my arm. My doctor gave it to me in the late 1970's. So, I feel a certain measure of comfort from that knowledge. However, it is important to note that the immunologic effect of the vaccine wanes (decreases) over the years.

Talking-heads on CNN et al have been stating that those who received the vaccine may not be immune. Well, I would like to point out to those @%^*!s that the original small pox vaccine was a LIVE VIRUS. That's why your skin ended up with welts, sores, and then scarred for life. The Japanese used the Oka Chicken Pox Vaccine for 20 years before the US gov't finally got it released to our nation. Have the Japanese seen any waning immunity from Oka Varicella Zoster Vaccine (the chickenpox vaccine)? NO! Yet, there are still idiot talking-heads who are PAID to show up on some news program and to spout incorrect info that the OkaVZV vaccine has concerns about waning immunity. ACCORDING TO WHOM?

The FDA can find an answer to the question of waning smallpox immunity real fast. THOMPSON NEEDS TO TELL CDC TO COMMISSION A FOLLOW-UP STUDY ON THE OLD SMALLPOX IMMUNIZATION. Have CDC draw serum samples on our generation of kids (who got the vaccine when we were young and are now consenting adults). Confirm when the patient received the vaccine and check the sample for any antibodies to smallpox. If you find IgG antibodies (assuming we know how to locate such antibodies, which I can not vouch for), then you will know if boosters are needed in previously immunized individuals.

Vaccinia Vaccine

Vaccinia (smallpox) vaccine, a licensed product, is a preparation of infectious vaccinia virus whose origin and manipulation is FDA approved. The vaccinia is grown in the skin of a vaccinated bovine calf (2). In 1982, the only active licensed producer of vaccinia vaccine in the United States, Wyeth Laboratories, discontinued production for general use, and, in 1983, distribution to the civilian population was discontinued. Smallpox vaccination has not been required for international travelers since January 1982, and International Certificates of Vaccination no longer include smallpox vaccination.

CDC provides vaccinia vaccine for laboratory workers directly involved with smallpox or closely related orthopox viruses (e.g., monkeypox and vaccinia). Due to clinical trials involving recombinant vaccinia virus vaccines, health-care workers (e.g., physicians and nurses) may now be exposed to vaccinia and recombinant vaccinia viruses and should be considered for vaccinia vaccination (6).

There is no evidence that smallpox vaccination has any therapeutic value in the treatment or prevention of recurrent herpes simplex infection, warts, oral thrush, or any other diseases (6). Requests for smallpox vaccine for these unapproved uses cannot be granted.

[chantal7]

The routine vaccination was ended in aro9und 1972. What are you doing getting it in the late 70's. I think small pox immunization should begin again. Maybe it will not be used. But if it is, staring immunization after that will be too late for the first to get it.

I had a smallpox immunization before 1976 and again in 1976 right before we left for the Middle East. It was required to enter Iran. The doc didn't have it on hand because it wasn't routinely given anymore here in the U.S. so he had to special order it for us from a drug company or the government.

[realpatriot71]

Perhaps you are right vaccinia was actually a mutation from cow pox. I know cow pox was used as the first "vaccination" against small pox when Jenner rubbed the scabs from cow's utters into cuts on the arms. Perhaps I was wrong there, but I thought vaccinia was a mutant form of small pox itself.

Actually it IS similarity of antibodies BECAUSE the coat proteins are so similar. I'm not sure how familiar you are with immunology, but antibodies have to BIND to an antigen FIRST so that the immune system recognizes that the antigen is foreign (or cancer). In this way, since the same antibodies bind BOTH viruses, the body's immunological response is the same.

You're right, if one could get ahold of small pox AND had the technology, then one could alter the coat proteins. Although technically difficult, the protocols are in place for this sort of transformation. And I agree; the Taliban do not have the technology or the brains to pull this off. Thank God.

Luckily, I've been vaccinated against smallpox, but many have not. Let hope and pray this virus is NEVER unleashed in this country. And to think we actually had the gall to think we had "erradicated" smallpox from the earth. Humans can be so arrogant.

[Aurelius]

BUMP

[Aurelius]

"I think small pox immunization should begin again."

It wouldn't come without a cost. When the vaccination was still administered, one in a million recipients suffered death or brain damage. In one in 18,000 there resulted severe infection with the virus spreading throughout the body.

Cure for Bioterror may be worse than the disease, NYT, 10/22

[GREY GHOSTt]

OOP's sorry it was the polio vaccine. SV40 contamination of polio vaccines.www.whale.to/vaccines/cancer.html

[GREY GHOSTt]

sorry i goofed it was the polio sv40

[freebilly]

Couldn't think of a stupider scenario than for a terrorist to release smallpox in this country. It would be like setting off a nuke in your neighbor's backyard.

At 30% mortality rate, smallpox in the US also translates into 300 million dead Muslims worldwide.

[Iwo Jima]

Your situation with your daughter certainly complicates matters for you. I would get the smallpox vaccine TODAY if I could, and give it to my kids (teenagers and older). Of course, I would listen to what my doctor had to say about the vaccination and read up on it in the PDR and other sources. But being healthy, I can't imagine anything that we could learn that would cause me any hesitation in getting us all vaccinated.

After all, we vaccinated EVERYONE (with few exceptions for very specific reasons) for years and years. Of all the people I knew (10,000, 20,000, 50,000???), I never knew or even heard of anyone having an adverse reaction. If it was considered generally safe then, why would that analysis be any different now? Especially when the risk of the disease is so much greater?

If I were you, in order to protect my child if for no other reason, I would agitate for the right of people like me to get vaccinated ASAP. A non-immunized person receives great benefit from the fact that they are surrounded by immunized people. It makes it much less likely that they will come in contact with the infection.

This decision is really a personal one and should be left up to the individual or his parents. The government, the CDC, and the medical community can certainly make recommendations, but IT'S MY CHOICE, not theirs, just like it's your choice about your daughter.

[bonesmccoy]

Did they positively identify the virus via blood serology? Several different viruses can create mumps.

[bonesmccoy]

I'm very familiar with immunology. However, the coat proteins in the virus up-regulate the plasma cells which produce the immunoglobulins in question. So, yes, you are correct regarding the similarity in the antibodies, but I think most immunologists would phrase it as similarity in the protein coating of the various similar virus antigens in the smallpox family (ok science mode off for now!)

[bonesmccoy]

Yeah, I hear you, but my 2 cents on this is: Heck, can you think of anything more stupid that thinking you could hi-jack a plane, pilot a jumbo jet, and then fly it into the WTC? In retrospect, I'm sure some of our military men would not say that it was stupid (given the resources utterly destroyed in the process and the relative lack of loss on the part of Al Queda). However, to our moralistic view, it seems terrible to lose just one life. America has such a great commitment to life, liberty and happiness that we often do not comprehend how little some others regard the same values.

[bonesmccoy]

thanks for the bump!

[Timesink]

I was part of the first generation NOT to be vaccinated and I was born in 1969.

I was born in 1970. I do not have any funky scars on my upper arms, but I have ALWAYS wondered what those freaky things were on so many other people's arms. And I seem to recall seeing plenty of them on people my age or younger, not just old people. Are there any other vaccinations that can cause those round scars? Is it possible to have gotten the vaccine and just have had a strong enough immune system to prevent the pustle from ever forming? (Hey, some people can go through serious chemo and never lose a single strand of hair.)

[Concentrate]

However, it is important to note that the immunologic effect of the vaccine wanes (decreases) over the years.

I wonder who says so. And/or why.

[McGavin999]

I really think they ought to do some studies. The body is a miraculous thing, they just might be surprised at how the body would react even if the vaccination is 40 or 50 years old. It would sure cut down on the requirements.

[Concentrate]

But the kids havn't gotten those vaccines, though.

[McGavin999]

That's the point. If those who have been vaccinated don't actually require a booster, then there will be more available for the children. They should get it first anyway, but chances are, they will vaccinate all the people in any city that is infected. If we know ahead of time that the body will still produce antibodies in adults who have been vaccinated years ago, that will leave more for children in other areas. They need to be exploring this possiblity NOW!

[Aurelius]

You are welcome.