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The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)
Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.


Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams


Thread 162
TNS Archives


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: christianlist; michaeldobbs
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To: SoothingDave; al_c
Maybe we should tell Bin Laden that Jones is a secret Jew!
7,521 posted on 11/12/2001 11:50:31 AM PST by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS
I understand he is trying to wheddle a stadium out of Irving or Arlington. What a jerk he is.

The current stadium is in Irving. He's looking at Arlington right now.

Yes, he's a jerk.

7,522 posted on 11/12/2001 12:06:48 PM PST by al_c
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Just dropped in the see what was going on today, (been out on the horse) and look what I find. Now you guys be honest, how many of your wives would put up with this type of abuse from you. It's pretty much 24/7 around here :)

Well, if you can pick up a horse, surely you can throw him around a bit. ;o)

7,523 posted on 11/12/2001 12:08:20 PM PST by al_c
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To: al_c
He's looking at Arlington right now.

Ah yes, the fine city of Arlington. A ballyard, an amusement park and 45 strip bars. ;-)

SD

7,524 posted on 11/12/2001 12:10:18 PM PST by SoothingDave
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To: angelo
He only who seeks the cheese shall, upon seeking it, find it. Yeah, find the cheese and consume it. (Cheddar 2:14)

May the Head Cheese Wis-con-sin bless the reading of his word...

verse 15: He that consumeth the cheese, is it not he who hath got him great good? Shall he not speak, seeing that he hath obtained the cheese?

verse 16: Yea, he shall speak, great and glorious words, shall he surely speak, for he hath the cheese.

verse 17: Surely if he refraineth from speaking, one invisible from behind him shall take up the speaking, but in an unknown language, which none shall know save he that speaketh it.

verse 18: So shall the word be spread abroad through all the land.

So let it written. So let it be done....

7,525 posted on 11/12/2001 12:11:18 PM PST by nobdysfool
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To: SoothingDave
Ah yes, the fine city of Arlington. A ballyard, an amusement park and 45 strip bars. ;-)

Yes, it's a lovely place. < /sarcasm>

Actually, the Ball Park (or whatever the soon-to-be sponsors will call it) is the shining light in that town. If you ever get a chance to go to a ballgame there, do it.

7,526 posted on 11/12/2001 12:17:51 PM PST by al_c
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To: al_c
And not a NICE one, like Steve Martin's character!
7,527 posted on 11/12/2001 12:20:39 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS; angelo; SoothingDave; JHavard; Havoc; al_c; allend; OLD REGGIE; Invincibly Ignorant...
Slow day........

I have a question for all:

Has anything on these threads changed your mind in a major way? If yes, what was it?

BigMack

7,528 posted on 11/12/2001 12:42:26 PM PST by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
I don't know if it's a change of mind or the crashing of a fantasy. . .

Christians hereon seem to love vigorous debate more than Loving like Jesus Loved and helping each other to do so better.

But what do I know. . . Loving is a challenge for all of us.

7,529 posted on 11/12/2001 12:48:16 PM PST by Quix
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Has anything on these threads changed your mind in a major way? If yes, what was it?

Good question. I wouldn't necessarily say that my mind has been changed, but I can honestly say that I have learned many things about the beliefs others hold. I will admit that I had a simplistic view of how many others thought of things like salvation by "Faith alone."

I still think such folks are in error, but I understand more deeply what they mean by such things.

SD

7,530 posted on 11/12/2001 12:52:24 PM PST by SoothingDave
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To: nobdysfool
May the Head Cheese Wis-con-sin bless the reading of his word... verse 15: He that consumeth the cheese, is it not he who hath got him great good? Shall he not speak, seeing that he hath obtained the cheese? verse 16: Yea, he shall speak, great and glorious words, shall he surely speak, for he hath the cheese. verse 17: Surely if he refraineth from speaking, one invisible from behind him shall take up the speaking, but in an unknown language, which none shall know save he that speaketh it. verse 18: So shall the word be spread abroad through all the land. So let it written. So let it be done....

ROFLOL! See how easy this is? I wonder if this is how Joseph Smith started. "Hey guys, get a load of this!"

Some links:

Cheddar Man

The Book of Cheese Chapter I

An Ode to Cheesedom
James Davies

Cheese, Cheese,
You never fail to please,
from camembert to Brie,
A warm place in my heart there'll be.

Cheese, Cheese,
strong flavour never a tease,
from Roquefort to fetah,
a taste you'll never better.

(From CheeseNet)

7,531 posted on 11/12/2001 1:48:00 PM PST by malakhi
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Slow day........ I have a question for all: Has anything on these threads changed your mind in a major way? If yes, what was it?

Hmm, I will think about this as I head home for dinner (hopefully my wife has prepared something :o(

7,532 posted on 11/12/2001 1:50:19 PM PST by malakhi
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Has anything on these threads changed your mind in a major way? If yes, what was it?

"Changed my mind" as to what I believe? No. I still maintain that the holy scriptures "RULE !!!" Or maybe I should put it this way: I still maintain that the scriptures take precedence over church tradition. Catholics have submitted themselves to the teachings and traditions of man (whom they unscripturally believe to be infallible) rather than to the rule of God revealed in the scriptures. When confronted with scripture, they often turn to logic as a defense...or completely ignore the scripture.
-- Hopefulpilgrim

"HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL PASS AWAY, BUT MY WORDS SHALL NOT PASS AWAY. " Lk. 21:33

"ALL FLESH IS LIKE GRASS...BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ABIDES FOREVER." 1 Pt. 1:24,25


7,533 posted on 11/12/2001 2:13:29 PM PST by hopefulpilgrim
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To: hopefulpilgrim
Tradition and Living Magisterium The word tradition (Greek paradosis in the ecclesiastical sense; which is the only one in which it is used here; refers sometimes to the thing (doctrine, account, or custom) transmitted from one generation to another sometimes to the organ or mode of the transmission (kerigma ekklisiastikon, predicatio ecclesiastica). In the first sense it is an old tradition that Jesus Christ was born on 25 December, in the second sense tradition relates that on the road to Calvary a pious woman wiped the face of Jesus. In theological language, which in many circumstances has become current, there is still greater precision and this in countless directions. At first there was question only of traditions claiming a Divine origin, but subsequently there arose questions of oral as distinct from written tradition, in the sense that a given doctrine or institution is not directly dependent on Holy Scripture as its source but only on the oral teaching of Christ or the Apostles. Finally with regard to the organ of tradition it must be an official organ, a magisterium, or teaching authority.
7,534 posted on 11/12/2001 3:20:00 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: angelo
Hmm, I will think about this as I head home for dinner (hopefully my wife has prepared something :o(

Becky is in the kitchen now cooking the varmit she ran down and kilt with her bare hands today, while out working in the fields. Must of been a heck of a fight, her clothes are all tore up and the varmit is missing a leg, quite the little woman Becky is. :)

BigMack

7,535 posted on 11/12/2001 3:29:43 PM PST by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Has anything on these threads changed your mind in a major way? If yes, what was it?

Yes and no. At first, this thread was a challenge to my faith. But now it is working the opposite...it is confirming my faith.

Also, like SD I had a simplistic idea of other beliefs and this has helped me to study those beliefs and then to compare them to my own.

7,536 posted on 11/12/2001 3:35:15 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: hopefulpilgrim
(Continued): Now in this respect there are several points of controversy between Catholics and every body of Protestants. Is all revealed truth consigned to Holy Scripture? or can it, must it, be admitted that Christ gave to His Apostles to be transmitted to His Church, that the Apostles received either from the very lips of Jesus or from inspiration or Revelation, Divine instructions which they transmitted to the Church and which were not committed to the inspired writings?

Must it be admitted that Christ instituted His Church as the official and authentic organ to transmit and explain in virtue of Divine authority the Revelation made to men?

The Protestant principle is: The Bible and nothing but the Bible; the Bible, according to them, is the sole theological source; there are no revealed truths save the truths contained in the Bible; according to them the Bible is the sole rule of faith: by it and by it alone should all dogmatic questions be solved; it is the only binding authority.

Catholics, on the other hand, hold that there may be, that there is in fact, and that there must of necessity be certain revealed truths apart from those contained in the Bible; they hold furthermore that Jesus Christ has established in fact, and that to adapt the means to the end He should have established, a living organ as much to transmit Scripture and written Revelation as to place revealed truth within reach of everyone always and everywhere.

Such are in this respect the two main points of controversy between Catholics and so-called orthodox Protestants (as distinguished from liberal Protestants, who admit neither supernatural Revelation nor the authority of the Bible). The other differences are connected with these or follow from them, as also the differences between different Protestant sects--according as they are more or less faithful to the Protestant principle, they recede from or approach the Catholic position.

Between Catholics and the Christian sects of the East there are not the same fundamental differences, since both sides admit the Divine institution and Divine authority of the Church with the more or less living and explicit sense of its infallibility and indefectibility and its other teaching prerogatives, but there are contentions concerning the bearers of the authority, the organic unity of the teaching body, the infallibility of the pope, and the existence and nature of dogmatic development in the transmission of revealed truth.

Nevertheless the theology of tradition does not consist altogether in controversy and discussions with adversaries. Many questions arise in this respect for every Catholic who wishes to give an exact account of his belief and the principles he professes: What is the precise relation between oral tradition and the revealed truths in the Bible and that between the living magisterium and the inspired Scriptures? May new truths enter the current of tradition, and what is the part of the magisterium with regard to revelations which God may yet make? How is this official magisterium organized, and how is it to recognize a Divine tradition or revealed truth? What is its proper rôle with regard to tradition? Where and how are revealed truths preserved and transmitted? What befalls the deposit of tradition in its transmission through the ages?

From the Catholic Encyclopedia.

Just to lay out the different views.

7,537 posted on 11/12/2001 3:48:58 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS
At first there was question only of traditions claiming a Divine origin, but subsequently there arose questions of oral as distinct from written tradition, in the sense that a given doctrine or institution is not directly dependent on Holy Scripture as its source but only on the oral teaching of Christ or the Apostles.

Too bad about what happened "subsequently."

Finally with regard to the organ of tradition it must be an official organ, a magisterium, or teaching authority.

"An official organ" by whose standards? The catholic church's, right? They look to flesh for their teaching rather than God. To them, the revelation of God is found in the wisdom of man. They have no concept of Spiritual instruction as taught to us in 1 Cor. 2.
-- Hopefulpilgrim

"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. " 2:14


7,538 posted on 11/12/2001 3:58:51 PM PST by hopefulpilgrim
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To: angelo
I'm not much on cheese. I love YAMS.

In the Old Country, we had nothing to eat but the yams. It was a sad country.

Yams are good food.
Eight yams...are too much food.

That would be two of the many sayings on yams we had in the Old Country.
Here are more yam wisdoms than you could stand, I bet

Yams...are...so...YAM-A-LICIOUS!!
The National Yam Marketing Board never could come up with a good slogan.

"Never underestimate the power of yams," my Granma would say.
She was a loon.

"Have you driven a yam lately?" Granpa would say.
We had to kill him eventually.

"Plant your dead grannies and grampies in the fields this year, you will have good yam crop no fear."
That is our national motto.
Messed up country, I always said.

"Stick a yam up your butt, you'll be sorry, you bet!"
That was another thing we said in the old country. Man, were they right!

A yam did save my life once, though.
Indirectly.
A guy choked to death on a yam, and, hey, he could have dropped a safe on my head!
One less yam related fatality, in my mind.

"I never met a yam I didn't like," I always said, till I met this one yam.

Once in Yamsylvania, we had the potato famine. Which did not upset us because, hey, we eat only yams! Then we realized it is better to starve on potatoes than eat yams. We became so poor we had to raise monkeys for their fur. OK, we raised them for their pleasant smell and many tasty parasites. The kids today, tell them about parasite stew, and they look at you like you're some kind of nutty man, crazed from yam poisoning.

We fed the monkeys bananas, or as we called them in those days which are days gone so we call those "Gone Days," but we called them not bananas but "yellow slipperies." Which was too long so then we called them "bricks," which sadly led to confusion and several collapsed buildings.

Mind you, the only 2 things you could do with monkey fur in those days was either trade it for a better type of monkey fur, or yams. Boy, did we eat a lot of yams. Yam soup, yam stew, yam pudding pops, tossed yam salad with Thousand Yam dressing, yam Spam, and for breakfast either Frosted Yam Flakes or Cap'n Crunch with Yamberries. With yam milk. Ever try to milk a yam? It's a lotta work. Course, milking a monkey's worse. They'll claw your face off.

7,539 posted on 11/12/2001 3:59:14 PM PST by the808bass
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To: the808bass
As you read them, ask yourself: "What have yams done for me lately?" You will find no answer.

With apologies to Zelko's Page of Yams. The yams have been edited for content, to fit the screen, and to run in the time allowed.

7,540 posted on 11/12/2001 4:01:13 PM PST by the808bass
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