Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
You are going to meet him soon enough, but not as Jesus, swwwt Jesus, but as your judge. Are you so confident of your rectitude that you do not need the prayers of others? Are you really prepared for the searing embrace of his hot love? And why do you insist that those who have disappeared from your sight are dead. Dead to you, dead to the world. but DEAD? Was their faith meaningless. You Are you serious in suggesting that the dead are as the living?
Does love end with the grave? If your mother dies, does she cease to love you? Do you cease to love her?
They are not Omni-present or omniscient so how can they hear you and the millions of others?
IF they are with God, who is everywhere and knows all things, then are their ears stopped to your pleas?
Verses people, give me some verses. I will diligently search for the verses which I have read that proclaim dead people are dead people as far as the earth is concerned.
By all means, dredge the Scripture.
How is it, if they are already living with Christ in Heaven, that when Jesus comes back someday (though this has already been accomplished in my opinion) they are going to rise again to be judged? Why judge someone who has already received the promise?
They will assume their bodies and stand together in brotherhood with the saints still on earth. All will be judged together to show God's justice.
I believe you better dredge the Scripture on that one.
BigMack
But that is not my main point, which is to question that the religious authority of a Hebrew text is necessarily greater than that of the Greek text.
Theres not enough room in one house with all that "pink hair."
BigMack
And you Scripture that contradicts it.
There were differing opinions, sure, But these were minority opinions, and they did not prevail. The consensus was preserved in the Talmud and is taught as orthodox Judaism to the present day.
It's of some ironic interest that the modern-day Lubavitchers (Chabad) not only refer to their deceased Rabbi Schneerson as King Messiah, but also use very divine-sounding titles as "Essence of the Infinite".
I am aware of this. This is of some concern to orthodox Jews, who are used to looking at Chabad as a bastion of orthodoxy. You should be aware that it is a fraction of the Lubavitchers who are promoting this, not Chabad as a whole. Some of these people are skirting apostacy here. Other orthodox Jews are hoping Chabad will deal with its messianics internally, so that they are not put in a position of having to deal with it themselves. All in all, a bizarre situation.
One thing I DO find ironic about the whole thing, is that here you have a person who we all agree was merely a man. And yet some years after his death, some of his followers are speaking of him as the messiah and in near-divine terms. HMMMM... who else had followers who proclaimed similar things about him after his death? IMO, this raises some interesting questions about the early Christian movement and the development of teachings about Jesus.
Not by just any random sin committed in a moment of weakness or inadvertantly, but if I were to choose deliberately to walk away from God, and continued in that, then yes, I could lose it.
I know that the next question is "were you ever really saved in the first place"? You have to define what viewpoint you're working from. If you are looking at it from God's viewpoint, then it could be said that no one who is truly saved can ever be lost, and no one who is lost can ever truly be saved. From yours and my own standpoint, living in linear time as we do, then we could sincerely believe we are saved, but if we walk away from it and never go back, then we "lost" our salvation.
From God's vantage point, the end is already certain, He sees it all as happening in the present. From our vantage point, we have to walk it out. So many times this point is argued, without the point of view being clearly defined. And whether you think so or not, it is a legitimate question for a person to ask, because what they're really asking is "How can I know I'm saved?", which is an indication that they truly want to receive, but they don't want to have run in vain. I think that is a legitimate concern, and we shouldn't bludgeon people over the head about it, but learn to listen to find the real question, and help them in love to see the truth. Love never fails.
Well, here goes. This took a little "research" ;)
Quaker Oats owns the rights to Aunt Jemima. Quaker Oats has been involved in some mind altering experiments on human beings with MIT (it's on the internet, so it's gotta be true). Also, Quaker Oats has given away Gasp! Pokemon Watches. The plot thickens. Quaker Oats bought Snapple. Snapple supports the KKK and the ship on their label is a slave ship. Quaker Oats was also a primary sponsor of the TV show, "Bewitched.". Also, Quaker Oats was instrumental in bringing "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory" to the silver screen (and VHS). Roald Dahl, author of the work upon which the film is based, also wrote The Witches. This is just the tip of the iceberg. :)
(Groan!) Sorry, nobdysfool, but if I had a nickel for every time someone has brought this up to me on FR...well, I'd have a lot of nickels. Its getting late, so let me give you the brief synopsis.
Isaiah 53 is the core passage Christians look to as evidence for a suffering messiah. The problem is, this passage is not messianic. The 'Suffering Servant' of Isaiah 53 is in fact a personification of Israel. A reading of the passage in the context of the whole of Isaiah makes this quite clear (things like "My Servant Israel", for example).
If the Jews were expecting a suffering messiah, then why were Jesus's disciples so shocked and incredulous when he told them he would have to suffer and die? The gospels clearly show that this was the last thing they expected from a messiah.
I will my friend.
BigMack
Robby, the copy of Isaiah found with the Dead Sea Scrolls is virtually identical to modern Hebrew copies. The error rate was negligible, and there were no significant variations in the text. Jewish scribes are exruciatingly meticulous in creating new scrolls.
I haven't yet seen you address my point about supposed errors in the Hebrew text. If such errors occurred, they would have occurred at an equal rate prior to the translation into Greek as they did subsequently. Your theory requires a significant error rate which would make the Greek text more reliable than the Hebrew. But if the Hebrew were so filled with errors, then so would the Greek be as well. You can't have it both ways.
OMG!!! bass, you are amazing! It all seems so clear now...
I further point out that Snapple used to advertise on the Rush Limbaugh Show. Rush is a large consumer of Snapple. Connect the dots. The drewids through their minions in the beverage industry fed Rush an enchanted Snapple which caused his hearing loss. They are seeking to coerce him into joining their nefarious cause!
Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.” (John 10:25–28)
Now if they perished, our Lord was wrong.
Neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one. (John 10:28–30)
The picture is this: Both are hands of Deity. Christ says, “No created thing can take them out of My hand, no created thing can take them out of My Father’s hand.” These are the two hands of Deity. You can’t get to the sheep that are in those hands. You just can’t!
“I give them eternal life. They shall never perish. Nothing can snatch them out of My hand.” That’s a tremendous statement, is it not? It’s an audacious statement!
BigMack
This charge can be made against your position as well. You assume the purity of the Hebrew text, but why? because those who have established your canon believe this.
If this is okay, then the Proddies can translate the scriptures in such a way as to lend greater support to their beliefs, and you have no grounds for criticism of them for doing so.
No,the comparison is wrong. We take as Scripture writings that your canon does not. Our claim is more like that of the Muslims, who believe in a later , FULL, and final revelation. To them both Jewish and Christians Scriptures are sacred, but the Koran is the PERFECT word of God.
The BLU-CHEEZ combines a watery mixture of Limburger and Gorgonzola with air, then ignites the mist for a small explosion that covers everything with fondue up to 6 feet away. The shock wave can be smelt yards away.
The BLU-CHEEZ uses about six times the amount of cheese that Graham Kerr used in the soufflé that blew up Julia Child in 1975.
First created during the Franco-Prussian War to quickly subdue the French, the "cheese cutter" also was used against Disney troops during the Mickey Mouse Wars. Reports from the ground in Afghanistan indicate the tiny bombs have been eaten by the front-line Taliban troops.
The bombs cost about $2.70 each. They are dropped from a Piper J-3 flying at least 60 feet off the ground, to avoid the bomb's massive smell. Each is more than 1.2 inches high and 5 inches in diameter - about the size of a stack of Beatle CD's but far heavier.
BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN IN HEBREW!!! Not only that, but the manuscript evidence shows a remarkable accuracy in transmission. If the Hebrew text has significant errors, then so does the Greek. Garbage in, garbage out.
Please see SD's #6928.
No,the comparison is wrong.
The comparison is right on target.
1. Hebrew to Greek. The Greek translation differs from the Hebrew in some ways, and these differences are exploited to advance your theological position.
2. Greek to English. the English translation(s) differ from the Greek in some ways, and these differences are exploited by the Proddies to advance their theological position.
We take as Scripture writings that your canon does not.
Completely off the point. Has nothing to do with the accuracy of the translation of the Hebrew canon into Greek.
Our claim is more like that of the Muslims, who believe in a later , FULL, and final revelation.
Let's cut to the chase here. Do you assert that the Septuagint is inspired, but that the Hebrew original is not?
To them both Jewish and Christians Scriptures are sacred, but the Koran is the PERFECT word of God.
The Muslims believe that the Hebrew scriptures were inspired, but have since been corrupted. So yes, your personal position is very much like that of the Muslims. Of course, the Muslims also believe that the Christian scriptures have been misinterpreted and corrupted into error. How do you answer them? (Perhaps they have an Arabic translation which they believe is more 'authentic' than the original Greek gospels).
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