The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

It is the misinterpreting of actions that is the problem.

Bingo! This is what I am speaking about. In Romans somewhere (I'm too lazy and short on time to find out exactly where)Paul was telling people to be careful (I think he was talking about eating meatscrafice to idols) if that bothered someone not to do it. But it wasn't wrong to do if you were just eating to be eating. Practical application tells me that we should be careful of how people view the things we do. We are to call Mary blessed, that is all the bible says, to do more to the detriment of someone else is wrong. God never says we are to have parades, crown her in May, etc. etc. so not to do it would not be a sin. But if you do it and someone misintreprets it as worship and so begins to worship Mary themselves in their heart (as what I believe is the case in my family from the actions and things said by them) then you are leading peopleto sin against God.

Becky

[DouglasKC]

Quick question, do you ever just talk without using verses? If not thats ok, just thinking.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, ;-)

[vmatt]

Why were they all unclean animals?

They were representative of the gentiles.

Why else were they taken up to heaven, then returned back to earth?

This was done three times, signifying the salvation of the gentiles in all three ages and the three times Peter denied Christ. I can identify with his hardheadedness. (is that a word?)

What was God doing with them up there?

I don't think this was anything other than a vision but I stand to be corrected.

[ksen]

Shall we not exercise our beliefs because we are afraid some might misunderstand?,

I don’t know, what would Paul say?

Romans 14:
[13] Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
[14] I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
[15] But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
[16] Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
[17] For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
[18] For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
[19] Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
[20] For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
[21] It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
[22] Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
[23] And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Paul tells us that if we do anything that may be lawful for us to do, although I am not willing to concede that Catholic veneration of Mary is lawful, but causes a brother to stumble then we are to refrain.

If Catholics “properly venerating” Mary causes others to treat her as a god, then it should not be done. To lead someone into worshipping something other than God is to gamble with their eternal souls. Do you want that on your conscience just so you can kiss a statue of Mary?

-ksen

[ksen]

Singing songs is one I have a problem with. I love good gospel singing and music and this is an aspect of worship as you say. I've often wondered why the psalms aren't used more as in Jesus and the disciples sang psalms. The problem for me is that if a song has words that I don't agree with, it's like pouring ice water on my worship and my heart sinks within me. I absolutely cannot engage in a song which contains what I would consider false doctrine.

I've always wondered if there were a place to find the Psalms set to music, the way they were meant to be.

-ksen

[vmatt]

I agree with statement. I wouldn't sing a song that had Jesus as a sinner, for example. Knowing your beliefs I think this would be a major problem with you as they differ a lot.

I truly wish it were not so and don't think for one moment I do this lightly, it breaks my heart. If there were an outlet within the church for my grievances, it would be different. I cannot accept total rejection of my beliefs out of hand. This is a major reason I can no longer worship among my wife's believing friends and a major reason I do not attend a church.

[JohnnyM]

yeah, Peter was hard headed. He had the three denials of Christ like you said and Christ also asked Peter if He loved Him three times.

JM

[JohnnyM]

There are many psalms set to music.

JM

[SoothingDave]

Paul tells us that if we do anything that may be lawful for us to do, although I am not willing to concede that Catholic veneration of Mary is lawful, but causes a brother to stumble then we are to refrain.

If Catholics “properly venerating” Mary causes others to treat her as a god, then it should not be done. To lead someone into worshipping something other than God is to gamble with their eternal souls. Do you want that on your conscience just so you can kiss a statue of Mary?

Present me with one person who is Catholic and thinks that Mary is a god and I will continue with this discussion. Otherwise, all it is is projection.

SD

[JohnnyM]

what particular songs do you have problems with? I am speaking more of the mainstream songs that most of us would be familiar with.

JM

[vmatt]

I've always wondered if there were a place to find the Psalms set to music, the way they were meant to be.

Pinging Angelo! You came out of Shabat for less;)

[SoothingDave]

I've always wondered if there were a place to find the Psalms set to music, the way they were meant to be.

You really should try a Mass someday. There's a whole world out there you are missing.

SD

[ksen]

Bingo! This is what I am speaking about. In Romans somewhere (I'm too lazy and short on time to find out exactly where)Paul was telling people to be careful (I think he was talking about eating meatscrafice to idols) if that bothered someone not to do it. But it wasn't wrong to do if you were just eating to be eating. Practical application tells me that we should be careful of how people view the things we do. We are to call Mary blessed, that is all the bible says, to do more to the detriment of someone else is wrong. God never says we are to have parades, crown her in May, etc. etc. so not to do it would not be a sin. But if you do it and someone misintreprets it as worship and so begins to worship Mary themselves in their heart (as what I believe is the case in my family from the actions and things said by them) then you are leading peopleto sin against God.

Wow! Check out my #37324. I posted that before reading your post above. I love it when things like that happen. ;^)

-ksen

[SoothingDave]

In Romans somewhere (I'm too lazy and short on time to find out exactly where)Paul was telling people to be careful (I think he was talking about eating meatscrafice to idols) if that bothered someone not to do it. But it wasn't wrong to do if you were just eating to be eating. Practical application tells me that we should be careful of how people view the things we do.

See my reply to ksen on this point.

But if you do it and someone misintreprets it as worship and so begins to worship Mary themselves in their heart (as what I believe is the case in my family from the actions and things said by them) then you are leading peopleto sin against God.

Now you know what your family believes about Mary again?

SD

[ksen]

You really should try a Mass someday. There's a whole world out there you are missing.

Before I was a Christian I gave serious thought to joining the Catholic Church and trying to be a Priest or monk or something. The rituals and ceremonies really drew me.

Now that I am a Christian, those same rites and ceremonies push me away.

I like you though. ;^)

-ksen

[SoothingDave]

I've always wondered if there were a place to find the Psalms set to music, the way they were meant to be.

Look up "Psalmody."

SD

[ksen]

Jude 3: Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

-ksen

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Romans 14:1 As for the man who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not for disputes over opinions.

So you would say we are all in error in talking about what we do here?

BigMack

[SoothingDave]

Before I was a Christian I gave serious thought to joining the Catholic Church and trying to be a Priest or monk or something. The rituals and ceremonies really drew me. Now that I am a Christian, those same rites and ceremonies push me away.

And yet, the very thing you were asking for, Psalms done the way they were supposed to be, is there in our "rites and ceremonies."

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

How? We weren't told by Jesus not to judge, we were told to make measured judgements. We're called to be fruit testers. It's not just a word game. We must walk the walk if were gonna talk the talk.

Why you mean, unloving, unkind, judgemental, uncaring, un tolerant, kinda of guy. :)

BigMack