Islamic Silence

The Libertarian ^ | October 10, 2001 | Vin Suprynowicz

[Urbane_Guerilla]

This is something 'nuanced' Westerners are going to have to come to grips with...

OBL is nothing more than what true conservatives have come to expect from those who hate America. He uses America to justify his love of murder and mayhem. The American leftists (like, the NY Times, etc) who are forced to confront the morality of killing innocent people, nonetheless need to point out what they percieve to be the faults of America as part of their evaluation of what is happening. Liberals and socialists cannot support themselves, intellectually, and so they need to call names.

Unbridled emotion and narcissism are what generates OBL and liberalism. They have both proven to be dangerous in their own way. And it all comes down to a simple idea -- either you can put yourself in the shoes of another person, or you want the power of life and death over them.

[TKEman]

Your post is exactly why I posted on another thread earlier today a call for moderation. How do you see posting these types of statements helps out the situation? Don't you see that this will drive moderate Moslems off the fence, and into Mr. bin Laden's arms? What do you want to do, fight 'em all? Carpet bomb the entire area of the world ranging from Morocco to Indonesia? Plunge the world into war?

How many do you want to die? If Churchill and Roosevelt had followed your prescription in WWII, all the Italians would've fought on, instead of switching sides.

When you have a relative who's an alcoholic, do you propose to beat it out of 'em? That's what western Europeans used to do with serious alcoholics in the Middle Ages. Doesn't work. Please, think about this.

[FITZ]

I used to talk with a Nigerian in college, he told me some pretty awful things about how it is living with Muslims in your country and how they are only motivated by jealous rages. Instead of fixing up their own area of the country they would attack the more prosperous Christians and blame them for all the problems Islam caused them. For example, the Muslims live in the north, they can have many wives who cannot work, the men cannot support their many wives and many children so they all live in extreme poverty. The women are beat so often will escape to the south where they can find jobs and have a decent enough life. The Muslim men expect to have 4 wives at least and find themselves with even less women. The Christians with monogamy and educated women are able to enjoy far better lives and that makes the Muslims very hateful and jealous.

[FITZ]

I dated a Egyptian Moslem, and she told me that for it to go further, I had to convert to Islam

Then you could have had a whole bunch of wives.

[TKEman]

I think some Libertarians kinda went off the deep end right after the attacks. Making me mad as hell, since I live almost within sight of the Pentagon. I see now he's done some research on this issue. People should refrain from comment until they know the broad outline of the facts. Lord knows I've been guilty of this.

Living in our nation's capital is good for some things, and one of those is having close daily contact with people from a wide range of cultures.

I'm impressed with people from Hindu or Buddhist religiously based cultures. Not so much so with people from Moslem lands. This was even before the horror of September 11th.

[TKEman]

Yes, I would say it's off the wall to arm people flying. These are all pressurized tubes, and you puncture the tube with a gun fight, and well......

I think people are so jumpy these days, that I'd be afraid to fly if I knew half the people on the airplane were packing heat. You get one guy shooting, and then everyone will be.

I personally don't care what the federal regulations say anymore. Just look at the hemp plant prohibition. You well know my views on government "regulations" regarding issues related to hemp.

Nice to see you posting on this issue. You happen to be one of the few people on FR whose views I look for here. You tend to be moderate and rational.

[TKEman]

Everybody should read the Koran. It is posted on many websites. And when folks read the Koran, they will see how hateful and absurd a "religion" it is. It is in fact an Arab call to rule the world in the name of monotheism. The raper and murderer Mohammed understood how bogus he was. He got a big kick out of it all, just like OBL. Islam is a bunch of guys who like to kill, and who are inept when they INSIST that THEY believe in God more than you.

Well, I think it's fair to point out that Jesus couldn't very well do this if only because he lived in a huge Empire controlled by people of a different religious bent. In fact, Jews - of which Jesus was one - were a small minority. Mohammed was basically an military adventurer that linked religion with political power, and was successful in his efforts to do so. The political situation he faced was one of city states and confusion. He was able to weld the sword and faith together in his effort take over the peninsula. Whether or not he believed what he said is another issue, IMHO. Jesus had to pursue other means, because the politics was vastly different. The Roman Empire wasn't run by Gandhi. He knew there was no chance for anything military to succeed, so why not pursue the path of peace? Particularly if you have to.

I know that sounds cynical. I admit I'm agnostic at best. All I'm saying is that you want to start a religion, you gotta take certain realities to heart.

Oh, before I post, I think it wise from my point of view to point out that once Christianity reached a critical mass in the Roman Empire, and political power was obtained, the situation changed in terms of force being applied....

[TKEman]

Well, at least the liberals aren't killing us.

I think bin Laden believes what he says. He hasn't spent much time in the west, or out of his cultural sphere. He's just crazy, and needs to be put down. He's very serious about this jihad thing. Just as Hitler was about his beliefs.

He gained his influence due to his money. Money always helps.

[MadameAxe]

He hasn't spent much time in the west

I thought he went to Oxford. Am I remembering wrong?

Also, I am pretty sure that a plane will not instantaneously depressurize if hit with a stray bullet, especially if the ammo was frangible. I saw someone post a very good explanation of why this is on a thread but haven't been able to find it this evening. In a nutshell, he explained that planes already have open pressure valves in them constantly controlling the release of air, so if more were to start leaving, those valves would close to make up the difference.

Sorry I can't find you a link at the moment; I'll post it if I do.

[ppaul]

If this is not the true teaching of the Koran, then leaders of the Arab and Islamic communities could be doing a whole lot better at denouncing it.....

But it is the true teaching of the Q'ran.

Click above banner to go to site.

[ppaul]

I'm impressed with people from Hindu or Buddhist religiously based cultures.

Impressed? How? Why?
Perhaps you could provide a Top 10 List or something to explain the reasons
why you are impressed by them as opposed to others.

Just curious.

[wretchard]

Actually, a fatwa was issued against Osama Bin Laden during the intramural fighting with the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan back in 1999. It seems Bin Laden had torched a bunch of Afghan homes and Masood, his rival, had gotten some Islamic Holy Men to fatwa OBL.

Surf some of the Muslim sites, and you see that they fight each other all the time, in the most cunning and cruel ways. Then they learned to get on a jet, and now you get to watch these quaint practices live in Manhattan and in Florida.

[FReethesheeples]

I agree entirely withyour point that we don't want ot fight all Moslems.

While I obviously was just floating this idea which was advanced by G. Gordon Liddy a few years agio during the Iran-Iraq war (before teh Iraq-Coalition war), I have lin\vend in & visited 8 Muslim countreis and over 50 other nations.

Franly, I don't really buy the view that psy-ops & psych-War couldn't be used as a weapon with TERRORISTS, just because they are Muslim.

I cannot imagine that ALL Moslems would be offended if we merely sent a few dozen heads of TERROTISTS & extremists in pig bellies.

gen Pershing, before WWI in 1899-1903 was in the Phillipines and executed some Huk & other Moslem terrorists with bullets rolled in pig-fat.

he sent a couple of guys back to their homes to tell what ws done.

Result: The Mul\slim extremist revbelion ended IMMEDIATELY.

If these guys are really devout Muslims, they will know they cannot get into heaven.

If they aren't them why should any Muslim care?

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[l0newolf]

Any religion that does not recognize the need for a seperation of church and state is a step backwards in terms of western political thought. The muslims are no friends of the west. Let's accept that and find fault where it really lies...combining church and state is anathema to republican principals.

That said, the enemy before us does not recognize that principal. The only way to undermine their mind set is by example...to demonstrate the power of a true Republic. The very idea that the USG would rather replace a theocracy with a monarchy should give us all pause. I have never, ever seen the USG actively espouse a Republican form of government as a solution to the internal rivalry and bickering that characterizes the majority of nations.

Invariably it supports oligarchy of any stripe, but never freedom...no matter how many times the State Department repeats the mantra "democracy".

[HangThemHigh]

"When you have a relative who's an alcoholic, do you propose to beat it out of 'em? ... Doesn't work."

Depends on how hard you beat 'em.

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