Posted on 10/10/2001 11:43:52 PM PDT by MadIvan
We have contests between those who Make and those who prefer to Take. This might actually have given rise to governments in the first place; see Franz Oppenheimer's book The State for an extended analysis.
We have contests between groups that are simply, amorally, fighting over an asset that they cannot share. If you look at the continuous border skirmishes between the Soviet Union and Red China from about 1965 to 1990, you'll see a good example of this.
We have punitive contests, in which our enemy is not a nation but its government, and not in an unlimited sense. A government must sometimes be punished for its excesses, yet be left in place because the consequences of toppling it entirely would be worse. The Franco-Prussian War of 1870 was of this type. Despite a crushing victory, the German Empire preferred that France be left politically intact. Though I disagree with the assessment of Saddam Hussein as preferable to a power vacuum in Iraq, the Persian Gulf War may also be placed in this category.
We have contests between groups that view one another as morally intolerable. That is, each one sees the other as evil. This is the pattern into which our war with Afghanistan falls. The same is true for World War II.
No doubt there are other categories.
Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit the Palace Of Reason: http://palaceofreason.com
Mohammed is the source of the great differentiation between Muslim and Judeo-Christian religions. So, you would be better served by modifying your statement to read "Mohammed, prophet or demon?"
I disagree. The context of Huntington's thesis is that Western ideas = individual liberty (i.e. freedom from autocratic or theocratic tyranny). The only way to provide a truly civilized society is to enable and promote individual liberty. Any other societal approach is slavery, not civilization.
I contend that the essential component part of "Civilization" is a Body of Law that preempts both the will of tyrants -- and the tyranny of the mob. [AKA "democracy"]
Another apparently essential component part seems to involve the Judeo-Christian foundation of being created in God's image and striving valiantly to achieve as close to that image as is humanly posible.
Our Beloved FRaternal and Constitutional Republic, [Not, note well, a "democracy!!"] America -- by far and away the cutting edge of Human Civilization -- and essentially a Judeo-Christian Nation -- has been the cradle of so much creativity, innovation and productivity because, having, uniquely among nations, been Founded in -- and standing on -- the Principle of Individual Liberty -- and recognising as God-given -- and therefore inalienable by man or government -- the Constitutionally-Guaranteed Absolute Right of every man to the pursuit of all that is vital to his own life -- every man has been FRee -- as never before in the entire history of our species -- to pursue and to attempt to achieve his own vision of his own God's Image!
All other modern cultures, including those of the "tigers" and of Japan, have essentially failed to produce a sustainable wealth because they pursue only the material, by which the West's success appears to be measured -- either without understaning -- or being unwilling to embrace -- the underlying Moral Integrity -- and accompanying Rule of Law.
China, often [Falsely] held up as a 5000-year "civilization" was only a hundred and fifty years ago soundly defeated [And will never forget it!] in a war with a handful of Britons in a few sailing ships at the end of a ten-thousand-miles-long supply line! And for all of its much-trumpeted "5000-years of 'civilization,'" -- and quite long exposure to Western Civilization -- to this day has never even managed to put together a government worthy of the name -- and is ruled as if [And is!] a medieval serfdom, by a mass-murdering gang of self-appointed thuggees.
. . . but unlikely to run out of it any time soon, it would appear. Cold fusion is, I fear, tin-foil hat stuff . . .
Excellent analysis generally.
Thank you.
FReegards
Brian
Where he is his own guardian and guide.
Where he neither needs nor wants an "external authority" to rule him...
Where he fights all attempts to be controlled and manipulated by others...
Consciousness is his weapon... Not his weakness...
Great post. I agree: Western Judeo-Christian civilization is innately superior to all others.
(But be careful; there are certain people here on FR who will accuse you of being a white supremacist for saying so.)
[And, having spent much of my adult life among the Arab Peoples, having learned their language -- and having enjoyed them all so much -- I understand and share what appears to be your admiration for them all! But, that said, knowing them as well as I do, I harbor no delusions about the intentions of the islamics!]
Semantics?
Or:
A Civilization is defined by the WRITTEN Body of Law that ensures its multi-generational survival!
Western [IE Human] Civilization's knife edge is thus that epitomized in the only Constitutional Republic ever Founded and standing on the Principle of Individual Liberty -- The United States of America!
. . . but unlikely to run out of it any time soon, it would appear. Cold fusion is, I fear, tin-foil hat stuff . . . Excellent analysis generally
Spain was flooded with gold for 200 years, it didn't make them stronger, it did them no good at all. In the end Nepoleon brutally invaded, and the peasants began the first guerrilla war.
I agree cold fusion seems tin-foil hat, but technology does present surprises from time to time, and all of them are called tin-foil hat, by the establishment.
Main Entry: civ·i·lize
Pronunciation: 'si-v&-"lIz
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -lized; -liz·ing
Date: 1601
transitive senses
1 : to cause to develop out of a primitive state; especially : to bring to a technically advanced and rationally ordered stage of cultural development
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