Sr. Lucy Receives New Message

Diocese Report ^

[HapaxLegamenon]

Michael Matt, editor of the Remnant a traditionalist Catholic newspaper published the following report on their website. We have been informed by a reliable contact in France that Sister Lucy (the only surviving seer of the Fatima apparitions) has delivered a message to Carmelite sisters in France. According to this report, Sister Lucy recently received another communication from the Mother of God. In the wake of that communication, we are told, Sister Lucy has asked Carmelite sisters throughout the world to pray specifically on the Feast of the Most Holy Rosary for a special intention. That intention is, we are told, that the world might be spared “a blood bath.” Whether this has any connection to the impending war with Islamic terrorists, we have no way of knowing. Though our French source is reliable, we have not been able to confirm this report ourselves, and are now in the process of trying to do so. At least two Carmelite convents in the United States have indicated to us that they have NOT received such a message. One Carmelite convent, however, did confirm that they did receive a letter from the Asociatcion Ntra. Sca Del Rosario in Fatima Portugal (dated September 13th, 2001), which did call on the Carmelite order to unite with Sister Lucy in praying for peace in the world on October 7—the Feast of the Holy Rosary. In this letter (written in Spanish) there was no mention of a recent communication to Sister Lucy from Our Lady, nor was there reference to a “blood bath.” We are presently waiting for the text of the French version. In any event, we believe that, because time is short between now and the Feast of the Holy Rosary, it would be a good idea for all Catholics to join the Carmelites in praying for this intention on tomorrow’s Feast. Such an intention is a certainly most worthy, especially right now; so even if this French report turns out to be somehow exaggerated, the intention is still well worth remembering during this critical hour of unrest and uncertainty in the world.

[editor-surveyor]

"What it amounts to is trying to get me to believe that you are guided by the Holy Spirit, and nobody else is."

Get rational.

Nowhere did I say anything close to that, nor have I ever challenged the sincerity, or authenticity of your personal faith. It's just this utterly evil demon of deification of Mary that I have challenged.

The only response that has been returned has been to twist my words, or twist God's word by uprooting it from it's context.

Mary was 'righteous' because her faith was imputed to her for righteousness, just like Abraham, Moses, Elijah, or any other beliver before the birth of our lord. She was not born sinless.

[classygreeneyedblonde]

Oh Mary conceived "without sin"

[Brian Kopp DPM]

Who, then, is Our Enemy?

[Unam Sanctam]

I also said absolutely nothing about Ecclesia Dei, so I don't know where you got that. SSPX consecrate bishops against the direct orders of the Pope and are in schism. Those subject to Ecclesia Dei, like the FSSP, are obedient to the magisterium. Both celebrate the holy sacrifice of the mass according to the Tridentine rite, but the disobedience of one and obedience of the other makes all the difference.

[Squire]

Congratulations. You're a Nestorian.

It never ceases to amaze me how the FR non-Catholics keep bumbling-fumbling-stumbling over Catholic teaching. You people could do stand-up!

Since Christ did everything on earth as a single divine Person (with a divine nature and a human natures), so too Mary, as His mother, conceived Christ the divine Person (with both divine and human natures), not merely the human nature.

[classygreeneyedblonde]

yes she did

The "War against terrorism" begins on October 7th, the Feast of Our Lady of the Rosary. Recall that in Our Lady's last appearance at Fatima on October 13, 1917, She identified Herself as "Our Lady of the Rosary." Her message to pray the Rosary for world peace was rejected, and the War begins on the Feast of Our Lady of the Rosary. 10-7-01

[Brian Kopp DPM]

utterly evil demon of deification of Mary

OK, show me in official Catholic documents where Mary is deified. (Don't quote saints, and saying that "praying too" equals "worship" and therefore deification just don't cut it...we know the difference.)

After you have proven to me that Catholicism has "deified" Mary, then lets move in stepwise fashion, rationally and charitably, to the next issue.

[Antoninus]

Let's play "Who said this?"...

"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527).

"She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. (Personal {"Little"} Prayer Book, 1522).

"Whoever possesses a good (firm) faith, says the Hail Mary without danger! Whoever is weak in faith can utter no Hail Mary without danger to his salvation. (Sermon, March 11, 1523).

"Our prayer should include the Mother of God . . . What the Hail Mary says is that all glory should be given to God, using these words: "Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ. Amen!" You see that these words are not concerned with prayer but purely with giving praise and honor . . . We can use the Hail Mary as a meditation in which we recite what grace God has given her. Second, we should add a wish that everyone may know and respect her . . . He who has no faith is advised to refrain from saying the Hail Mary. (Personal Prayer Book, 1522).

Well, if you haven't guessed by this point, the answer is Martin Luther......

[father_elijah]

Your high view of the Bible would rival any Muslim's adoration of the Koran.

When I was reading your attacks on Mary, I wanted to know where you were coming from. I thought I might post to you about the Hypostatic Union, the title Theotokos, the heresy battles of the early Church, but that would be a waste of time I see. Too bad.

Your brand of Christianity strikes me as being extremely lonely and typical of a kind of me-and-Jesus thinking that undermines Jesus' prayer that we be one as a sign to the world. And it seems to elevate the Bible to place above the Holy Spirit guiding the Church into all truth through these two millennia.

I was addressing certain obvious errors that stand against God's Holy Word, the only irrefutable standard that we all have.

Mary is the Mother of God's Holy Word. If I were you I would be more careful in speaking about Jesus' Mother. You just shouldn't dis anybody's momma, and most especially the Mother of God.

[classygreeneyedblonde]

Those signs are for the ones who do not believe...

[aposiopetic]

She was not born sinless.

I would ask how you know this. Anticipating a potential response, I look to Rom. 3:23. At least we must agree that among the 'all' to whom the verse refers is not Our Lord.

[Squire]

Trust in Jesus and put your faith only in him. Any of this other stuff is demonic.

...As long as the Jesus you trust is the Jesus defined by crystal 55t, that is.

[ruoflaw]

I haven't seen people atttack Catholics like they have tonight since the fifties.....when people acted so ignorant and prejudice against those of us of the Catholic faith.

[editor-surveyor]

"You just shouldn't dis anybody's momma..."

Grins.

Good night all, this old computer is too slow to load this thread often enough to do justice to all of your comments.

Please realize that I do not doubt your personal faith, nor do I necessarily ascribe to any of you as individuals the deification of Mary, but to some the shoe does indeed fit.

In Him,

E.S.

[Squire]

Yup. A lot of lead in the air tonight.

[Squire]

You are breathtakingly ignorant. Please do not again comment on the Catholic Church until you learn more about what it actually teaches.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

I still would like to hear a biblical argument as to how dead people in heaven could possibly hear our prayers

Hmmm...that's got me stumped...lets see...well, God hears our prayers, and the saints in Heaven are in spiritual communication with God in the Beatific Vision...so...God tells them!

Of course, its not that simple: on one hand, we all are alive only through Christ who lives in us, on the other hand, if Christ literally already lives in us, animates us, and ultimately is responsible for any good that we do, then we already speak to Christ in prayer in our souls, He is dwelling in us, and our communion with each other is really a sharing with each other of the Indwelling of the Holy Trinity. Same in Heaven. Without out earthly corrupt body we hear and see God perfectly, and thus also hear the prayers of those calling upon the Lord and calling upon us who are with Him in Heaven. You can read through these links, if you are truly interesting in learning the Truth:

The Communion of Saints

Cathach (Book Shrine); Ireland: 13th century

The Communion of Saints: "All Who Are In Christ" (BIBLICAL TREATISE;  now included only in my book A Biblical Defense of Catholicism) 36K
The Communion of Saints: Biblical Overview (BIBLICAL TRACT) 19K
Dialogue on Objections to the Communion of Saints 22K
Cloud of Witnesses: A Biblical Primer on the Communion of Saints (BIBLICAL TRACT) 7K
"Witnesses" of Hebrews 12:1 (BIBLICAL TRACT) 4K

EXTERNAL LINKS

Saints: Holy Siblings (Scott Hahn)
Devotion to Our Lady and the Saints (William G. Most)
What is a Saint? (James Akin)
Saint Worship? (Catholic Answers)
Asking the Saints to Intercede (James Akin)
Asking the Saints to Intercede (Church Fathers)
Can Those in Heaven Hear Our Prayers? (James Akin)
Why Do Catholics Pray to Saints? ("Matt1618")
The Communion of Saints (Augustine Club Website)
The Biblical Basis for Guardian Angels (James Akin)
Do Catholics Worship Statues? (Catholic Answers)
Veneration of Holy Images (Pope John Paul II: 4 December 1987)
Are Saints "New Revelation"? (Canonization)?  (Mark P. Shea)

[Brian Kopp DPM]

Praying to the Saints

Praying to the Saints

Fundamentalists challenge the Catholic practice of asking saints and angels to pray for us. But the Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.

Thus in Psalm 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalm 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2)

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

Jesus himself warned us not to mess with small children because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." (Matt. 18:10).

Because he is the only God-man, Jesus is the only Mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1-4), including those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).