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When fingers are pointing and some quislings in Washington are attempting to ignore the religious, cultural and democratic ties that bind the destinies of America and Israel once and forever, this is the sort wisdom we can all use.
1 posted on 10/06/2001 10:02:00 AM PDT by Masada
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To: Masada
You hear it mainly on the margins, and if past experience is a guide, it will stay there

This finger-pointing is orchestrated and has a political agenda. We want to split Muslims into moderates and fanatics. They want to split "the infidels" into Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc. There is a bunch of bona-fide idiots, zoological anti-Semites and cowards, but most of the anti-Israel backlash comes from quite specific quarters

2 posted on 10/06/2001 10:16:19 AM PDT by eclectic
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To: Masada
Israel is the apple of God's Eye. If the USA turns its back on Israel it is the end of the USA.
3 posted on 10/06/2001 10:23:14 AM PDT by marbren
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To: Masada
"And the truth is that America and Israel are allies, not because of some cabal of Jewish lobbyists, but because their two peoples demand it. America's support for Israel is not misguided, but profoundly moral. America and Israel share a deep community of values. They are partners in the democratic enterprise, cities on a hill devoted to something larger than themselves. Both are imperfect, at times painfully so. Both become impatient when their imperfections are pointed out. Still, both are societies striving to represent the better nature of humankind, and for that reason they deserve defending."

The most rational explanation of why the continued existance of Israel is critical.

Critical too ,is the acceptance of Arab and Aryan [Iran] Moslem societies who wish to share in 'the better nature of humankind'......

5 posted on 10/06/2001 10:28:54 AM PDT by prognostigaator
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To: Masada
What values? We give them 10 billion dollars in aid with the promise that they will stop building settlements. Israel said yes, after they recieved the aid they kept on building. Israel agreed to an international agreement not to build settlements but they just go ahead and build anyway. If Israel agrees to stop all settlements and recognizes a Palestinean state. Then if the Arabs keep up their terrorists campaign then to hell with the Arabs. Could you tell me how our country benefits economically from our ties with Israel? Most countries in the world would be our "friends" if we gave them unlimited funds, state of the art military equipment, and an assurance that we would back them militarily in any war. Please don't start with the antisemitic rhetoric. I have many jewish friends. Both sides are to blame but the US needs to examine all positions.
6 posted on 10/06/2001 10:32:07 AM PDT by doc
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To: Masada
"quislings"

That's a bit strong, don't you think?

10 posted on 10/06/2001 10:41:12 AM PDT by Big Bunyip
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To: Masada; zion_ist; dennisw; Yehuda; veronica; Sabramerican; Lent; American in Israel; angelo
Masada shall not fall again.

Hey did you know there's a word for "ping" in Hebrew?

Zeemzoom! : )

11 posted on 10/06/2001 10:44:14 AM PDT by American Preservative
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To: Masada
It's still too early to get a real feel for how this will shake out vis-a-vis U.S.-Israeli relations. Israel should not be overly optimistic. From a realpolitik perspective the re-alignment between Russia and the USA, and particularly Putin's eager desire to help the U.S. in the present crisis, redounds to the detriment of Israel.

Sharon must use every ounce of skill to keep the relationship on track, which makes his "Czechoslovakia in 1938" remarks all the more baffling.

17 posted on 10/06/2001 11:04:16 AM PDT by beckett
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To: Masada
"In reply, important voices are being raised from within the Jewish community, declaring that the attacks and the hatred behind them have nothing to do with America's support for Israel. Osama bin Laden and his ilk are motivated, we are reminded, by larger, more global issues: suspicion of modernity, secularism, democracy and the Western civilization that champions them. "

Really?

Let's look at what Osama bin Laden himself says. I will quote from a 1998 interview of Osama bin Laden by Frontline. The original context is here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html

"We know at least one reason behind the symbolic participation of the Western forces and that is to support the Jewish and Zionist plans for expansion of what is called the Great Israel. Surely, their presence is not out of concern over their interests in the region. ... Their presence has no meaning save one and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine who are in need of their Christian brothers to achieve full control over the Arab Peninsula which they intend to make an important part of the so called Greater Israel. ..."

"For over half a century, Muslims in Palestine have been slaughtered and assaulted and robbed of their honor and of their property. Their houses have been blasted, their crops destroyed. "

"They should all unite in the fight against polytheism and they should pool all their resources and their energy to fight the Americans and the Zionists and those with them. "

"The enmity between us and the Jews goes far back in time and is deep rooted. There is no question that war between the two of us is inevitable."

"The leaders in America and in other countries as well have fallen victim to Jewish Zionist blackmail."

"Once again, I have to stress the necessity of focusing on the Americans and the Jews for they represent the spearhead with which the members of our religion have been slaughtered. Any effort directed against America and the Jews yields positive and direct results - Allah willing."

"The fatwah is general (comprehensive) and it includes all those who participate in, or help the Jewish occupiers in killing Muslims. "

" He acted with zeal to make the Americans understand that their government was attacking Muslims in order to safeguard the American-Jewish interests. ... "

"We are certain that we shall - with the grace of Allah - prevail over the Americans and over the Jews, as the Messenger of Allah promised us in an authentic prophetic tradition when He said the Hour of Resurrection shall not come before Muslims fight Jews and before Jews hide behind trees and behind rocks. "

"We are certain - with the grace of Allah - that we shall prevail over the Jews and over those fighting with them."

"We anticipate this to happen to him and to the influential people who stand by him and who have sided with the Jews and the Christians giving them free reign over the land of the two Holy Mosques."

"And, while America blocks the entry of weapons into Islamic countries, it provides the Israelis with a continuous supply of arms allowing them thus to kill and massacre more Muslims. "

"I say to them that they have put themselves at the mercy of a disloyal government, and this is most evident in Clinton's administration ... . We believe that this administration represents Israel inside America. Take the sensitive ministries such as the Ministry of Exterior and the Ministry of Defense and the CIA, you will find that the Jews have the upper hand in them. They make use of America to further their plans for the world, especially the Islamic world. American presence in the Gulf provides support to the Jews and protects their rear. And while millions of Americans are homeless and destitute and live in abject poverty, their government is busy occupying our land and building new settlements and helping Israel build new settlements in the point of departure for our Prophet's midnight journey to the seven heavens. America throws her own sons in the land of the two Holy Mosques for the sake of protecting Jewish interests. ... "

"We say to the Americans as people and to American mothers, if they cherish their lives and if they cherish their sons, they must elect an American patriotic government that caters to their interests not the interests of the Jews. "

Thus, here we have Osama bin Laden himself giving the reasons for his actions. In the interview bin Laden does not complain about "modernity", "democracy", "secularism" and Western civilization. He only complains about Israel and American support for Israel. It is clear that the reason Osama targets American is because of the support the US has given to Israel.

18 posted on 10/06/2001 11:06:32 AM PDT by Marduk
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To: Masada
America and Israel are indeed bound by history and shared values. However, I have a little different take on the background and motivations of the present conflict. I understand the thousands of years that the Arabs and Jews have been in conflict so I base the following comments on recent history.

The present state of Israel was created by the United Nations in 1948 partly as an emotional reaction to the treatment of the Jews by the NAZIs. The United States was hesitant in its support of that until Harry Truman finally relented, some say as a favor to a close Jewish friend, and gave it his support. This was also at a time when Joseph Stalin was exploiting the Allies victory in WWII, a war in which Russia would have surely been defeated by Germany and Japan without strong U.S. assistance, by occupying Eastern Europe and stepping up its interference in other governments around the world. They immediately seized the opportunity in the Middle East to exploit the conflict between the Arabs and the Jews by fomenting and supporting Arab opposition to the creation of Israel. They encouraged the Arabs to destroy Israel, knowing we would resist that both morally and because of the dependence of the free world upon the oil in the area, and they armed all the countries surrounding Israel. Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and others bristled with Russian planes, tanks, artillery, and arms. In 1967 they attacked Israel from all directions and were left in a bloody heap. They were saved from further destruction by U.S. pressure on Israel to stop the slaughter, a mistake we repeated in the Gulf War. Otherwise, Israel would have been in control of the entire region which may have brought Russia into the conflict. Because we lost our nerve and brought Israel up short, the area was still fertile for exploitation by the Communists and that is what led to the present situation.

Communists have always known that in order to survive they had to control the world and stamp out freedom and dissent anywhere it existed. They have used direct military intervention where possible and have resorted to terrorism where direct intervention was deemed too dangerous, too dangerous because of the U.S.A. They taught terrorists techniques to the Arabs for their use against Israel. Ironically, some Arab militants also became obsessed with visions of power and used the Islamic religion as their front, much as leaders in the Middle Ages used Christianity to gain territory and increase their power.

Soon these Arabs, in their expansionist mode, began to threaten their former benefactors, the USSR. Partly because the USSR was imploding, they attacked Afghanistan to stem this expansion into their territory. They may have been successful until we came to the assistance of the Afghanis. Now the these so called militant Islamic extremists have turned on us.

To summarize: The Arab war on Israel was fomented and abetted by the Communists. The Arab "Palestinians" don't want a homeland they want Israel destroyed. These Arabs who want to take over the world are using Islam and the existence of Israel as a pretext and disguise for their plans. Control of the oil in their area would be a big step toward world domination. They cannot gain control by direct military intervention because the free world is too strong and Russia and China have competing ambitions. Another of life's sweet ironies is that as Russia and China are seemingly seeing the shortcomings of Communism and modifying their plans for world domination, they are now facing a foe with an equally evil and ambitious plan as themselves. Perhaps now they will stop using us as their whipping boy and turn to the real evil on their borders, the Arabs.

As an aside, in my continuing effort to determine the real reason for our involvement in the former Yugoslavia, I am now suspicious that Slick Willie tried to use that situation to build a legacy for himself, as he used everything else for that purpose. As the non-Muslims in that area began to become aware and experience the Islamic expansionists' goals they attempted to repel them and then expel them from their area. The longtime Muslims of the area were being infiltrated by militants and became victims in that underground war. Slick expoited the effort to expel them and built it into "genocide" in order to intervene on behalf of the Muslims. Why? To gain favor with the "Palestinians" to encourage them to go along with his "peace plan" and to become a hero for bringing peace to the Middle East. He convinced Barak to give the Palestinians everythng they said they wanted, offered billions to both sides, and Hillary publically kissed Mrs. Arafat immediately after she called Israelis terrorists. Slick expected at least a Nobel Peace Prize, and even lobbied for it despite his failure, and world adulation.

Although our presence in Ugoslavia was a Clinton fraud we are still there to help stem the Islamic tide, the same thing Melosovic was trying to do.

22 posted on 10/06/2001 11:23:26 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot
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To: Masada
Bump.
33 posted on 10/06/2001 12:08:00 PM PDT by veronica
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To: Masada
Who, other than Israelies, can criticize Israel without this forum and, to a lesser extent, the general public, hurling the old "anti-Semitic" salvo? I see no slowdown in Settlement building. I see no slowdown in stone throwing.

I, Goy-boy, have only one safe option - to condemn the stone throwers. To do otherwise is anti-Semitic.

This Goy American wonders, "Is one of the founding principles of my country false? Does God have a favorite?" Is this question, by itself, anti-Semitic?

128 posted on 10/06/2001 9:27:07 PM PDT by Phil V.
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To: Masada
It's a psyop by Israel's enemies and doomed to fail. This isn't changing anyone's minds - it's just that certain elements see an opportunity to try to advance an anti-Israel agenda - it won't work. Too many people who count already know the truth and will continue to support Israel.
135 posted on 10/06/2001 10:18:53 PM PDT by 185JHP
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To: Masada
Let's put things in perspective. Israel is a 2nd world socialist theocracy with a population less than 6 million and a GNP of less than $81 Billion. It has no manufacturing base and a military comprised primarily of marginally trained 19 year old conscripts and balding weekend warriors. Since the collapse of the USSR it has no significant strategic importance. It is only significant when judged by the size of the pain in the A$$ it gives the US.
173 posted on 10/07/2001 1:46:25 PM PDT by 11bravo
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