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To: Masada
America and Israel are indeed bound by history and shared values. However, I have a little different take on the background and motivations of the present conflict. I understand the thousands of years that the Arabs and Jews have been in conflict so I base the following comments on recent history.

The present state of Israel was created by the United Nations in 1948 partly as an emotional reaction to the treatment of the Jews by the NAZIs. The United States was hesitant in its support of that until Harry Truman finally relented, some say as a favor to a close Jewish friend, and gave it his support. This was also at a time when Joseph Stalin was exploiting the Allies victory in WWII, a war in which Russia would have surely been defeated by Germany and Japan without strong U.S. assistance, by occupying Eastern Europe and stepping up its interference in other governments around the world. They immediately seized the opportunity in the Middle East to exploit the conflict between the Arabs and the Jews by fomenting and supporting Arab opposition to the creation of Israel. They encouraged the Arabs to destroy Israel, knowing we would resist that both morally and because of the dependence of the free world upon the oil in the area, and they armed all the countries surrounding Israel. Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and others bristled with Russian planes, tanks, artillery, and arms. In 1967 they attacked Israel from all directions and were left in a bloody heap. They were saved from further destruction by U.S. pressure on Israel to stop the slaughter, a mistake we repeated in the Gulf War. Otherwise, Israel would have been in control of the entire region which may have brought Russia into the conflict. Because we lost our nerve and brought Israel up short, the area was still fertile for exploitation by the Communists and that is what led to the present situation.

Communists have always known that in order to survive they had to control the world and stamp out freedom and dissent anywhere it existed. They have used direct military intervention where possible and have resorted to terrorism where direct intervention was deemed too dangerous, too dangerous because of the U.S.A. They taught terrorists techniques to the Arabs for their use against Israel. Ironically, some Arab militants also became obsessed with visions of power and used the Islamic religion as their front, much as leaders in the Middle Ages used Christianity to gain territory and increase their power.

Soon these Arabs, in their expansionist mode, began to threaten their former benefactors, the USSR. Partly because the USSR was imploding, they attacked Afghanistan to stem this expansion into their territory. They may have been successful until we came to the assistance of the Afghanis. Now the these so called militant Islamic extremists have turned on us.

To summarize: The Arab war on Israel was fomented and abetted by the Communists. The Arab "Palestinians" don't want a homeland they want Israel destroyed. These Arabs who want to take over the world are using Islam and the existence of Israel as a pretext and disguise for their plans. Control of the oil in their area would be a big step toward world domination. They cannot gain control by direct military intervention because the free world is too strong and Russia and China have competing ambitions. Another of life's sweet ironies is that as Russia and China are seemingly seeing the shortcomings of Communism and modifying their plans for world domination, they are now facing a foe with an equally evil and ambitious plan as themselves. Perhaps now they will stop using us as their whipping boy and turn to the real evil on their borders, the Arabs.

As an aside, in my continuing effort to determine the real reason for our involvement in the former Yugoslavia, I am now suspicious that Slick Willie tried to use that situation to build a legacy for himself, as he used everything else for that purpose. As the non-Muslims in that area began to become aware and experience the Islamic expansionists' goals they attempted to repel them and then expel them from their area. The longtime Muslims of the area were being infiltrated by militants and became victims in that underground war. Slick expoited the effort to expel them and built it into "genocide" in order to intervene on behalf of the Muslims. Why? To gain favor with the "Palestinians" to encourage them to go along with his "peace plan" and to become a hero for bringing peace to the Middle East. He convinced Barak to give the Palestinians everythng they said they wanted, offered billions to both sides, and Hillary publically kissed Mrs. Arafat immediately after she called Israelis terrorists. Slick expected at least a Nobel Peace Prize, and even lobbied for it despite his failure, and world adulation.

Although our presence in Ugoslavia was a Clinton fraud we are still there to help stem the Islamic tide, the same thing Melosovic was trying to do.

22 posted on 10/06/2001 11:23:26 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
Your explanation is very interesting, but don't you think it also might have something to do with Palestinians who see immigrants from Europe and Brooklyn and Russia living on the land their grandparents used to occupy under the Ottoman empire?

Don't get me wrong (although you will probably choose to do so anyway): Israel has a right to exist and live in peace.

But for a democracy to enjoy the principled support of the U.S. and its taxpayers, don't you think it would be nice if everyone born there -- not just Jews -- had a right to vote?

Name one other country where citizenship and full access to rights is determined by religion/culture.

Seems to me, after we deal with Osama et al., it might not be a bad idea to insist on a little democracy in that "democratic" ally that Masada believes the U.S. was created by God to establish, fund, and support unconditionally.

Sharon's comparison between Bush and Chamberlain has really got up my nose. This from an ally in time of war! Otherwise I wouldn't bother posting because these threads always end up with one side saying "remember the Liberty!" etc., and the other responding with "You anti-semite so-and-so."

27 posted on 10/06/2001 11:39:11 AM PDT by Big Bunyip
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
Zionism and Communism have a very interesting relationship. Are you aware that the USSR was the first state to recognize Israel? Yet it appears that Stalin later changed his mind and decided to support the Arabs, perhaps to provoke a confrontation with the US. He died before he could try the little stunt.
28 posted on 10/06/2001 11:48:43 AM PDT by Marduk
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
Actually guy Israel started the war in 1967

Look it up in the history books

All the best

Qatar-6

62 posted on 10/06/2001 1:56:46 PM PDT by Qatar-6
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