Marines do it their own way

MSNBC ^ | 9/30/01 | Sue Lackey

[kattracks]

A different approach to special forces
A Marine awaits orders during urban war training exercises last week at Camp Pendleton, California.
By Sue Lackey MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR

Sept. 30 —  For the average Marine, it is both amusing and a bit galling to hear all the talk about “special forces” and their capabilities. For while the Army, Navy and Air Force have created Special Operations Commands with a unique structure, the Marine Corps has taken its basic forward deployed unit — the Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) — and trained every one in special operations tactics.

THE FAMED Delta Force is often celebrated as the nation’s most elite special operations team, but its position as a member of the the Army’s Joint Special Operations Command gives it a narrow focus restricted to counterterrorism and hostage rescue. In contrast, each MEU must be qualified in 18 separate mission areas, including counter terrorism. This broad focus in training and qualifications makes the Marine unit more versatile than any other service’s special operations forces.
       Gen. Alfred M. Gray, who served as Commandant of the Marine Corps in the early 1980s, helped create the Joint Special Operations Command. But while the command often requests Marines to flesh out its capability, the Corps is the only service which has refused to join the command at an organizational level. “It goes against the reason the Marine Corps was developed,” says a Marine officer who is a special operations specialist. “It would have forced the Corps to focus on one mission, when the nation needed an amphibious force for forcible entry, with much broader capabilities.”
       Under a recent reform of the system, traditional special operations forces forces are assigned to specific theater Commanders in Chief — for instance, the Commander in Chief, Europe or the Commander in Chief, Southern Command, which handles Latin America. East of these commands have units with specific specialties, and depend on that regional commander for support. MEU’s, however, an amphibious force that can be deployed at will to any theater. Their floating base of operations gives them the ability to sustain a mission longer than other special operations forces, which are traditionally used for short term insertions, or in the case of the Green Berets, specific insurgency training missions.
 

      The true strength of the MEUs lie in their ability to augment their forces with air and ground combat elements and combat service support. This means any given unit can call in tanks, amphibious assault vehicles, and fixed wing aircraft — all of which are part of standard MEU order of battle. Other special operations forces must rely on conventional service support when additional forces are needed.
       A perfect example of this versatility was in the 1983 Grenada invasion, where Army special forces were inserted to extract U.S. Embassy staff. The team was able to reach their target, but were then bottled up inside the embassy and unable to get out through enemy troops. The JSOC team then called for Marine support. An MEU which had been diverted to Grenada broke through with tanks and armored vehicles to extract their colleagues and the embassy personnel they had rescued.
       The way in which special operations training has been integrated into the basic structure of the Corps has changed the capabilities of the Corps as a whole. The other military services are large enough to allow their SF units to function in some degree of separation. Because the Marine Corps is so small in numbers, its SOC qualified personnel rotate on duty throughout the Corps, which has enhanced the overall quality of training and identification with special operations forces. Most of these men have now percolated to the top of the command structure. “It’s been in place so long now that a lot of the flag officers grew up with this-they’re Al Gray’s boys,” said one Marine special operations veteran. “That’s what you do not get in the other special forces, because they tend to stay in their own areas. When they do go into other units to further their careers, they have problems integrating within the conventional forces and its military bureaucracy. They don’t do well as staff officers; they want to go back to their unit.”
       That lack of experienced special forces officers at high levels to give special forces a voice allows other branches of the conventional forces to marginalize the effectiveness of special operations in budget battles and mission planning — a situation the Marine Corps has managed to avoid.

       

[JoeSixPack1]

Thanks Slipjack. :-) Semper Fi

[JoeSixPack1]

Check out this weapons array for the USMC 1stFast anti-terrorist units fireteams, pretty impressive to say the least

M-16A2 rifles (some rifles have been fitted with sniper scopes for the units designated marksmen), M-16A2/M-203 40mm grenade launchers, Berretta M-9 9mm pistols (some with attached tactical lights), HK MP-5 9mm SMGs, Colt 9mm SMGs, Remington 870 shotguns, M-249 5.56mm Squad Automatic Weapons (SAWs), M-60 7.62mm GPMGs, Browning .50 Cal. HMGs, MK-19 40mm HMGs ( automatic grenade launchers), 60mm mortars, AT-4 88mm, and SMAW Anti -tank rockets.

that'll put the crunch back in your wheaties.

[CHIEF negotiator]

I don't think I looked as young as these kids look when I was born! Good grief, did we look that young when we were combat ready?

You mean you don't have your dress blues graduation picture beautifully framed hanging above your 'puter?

[WhyisaTexasgirlinPA]

Illbay, I am so grateful to learn that when our military forces are fighting for our freedom, YOU will be here ready to read poetry for us all..... it is such a comfort!

[sneakypete]

I initially responded to some guy who insisted this is all about how we have to "prove" to the nation that Bill Clinton was a Commie and that all the services--save the Marines--licked his boots.

I didn't like this either. In fact,it pissed me off! Guess what,though? I wasn't pissed off at him BECAUSE HE WAS RIGHT! As bad as I hate to admit it,the USMC ARE the only branch that had the balls to stand up to Bubba bin Bombing,and I would consider it a personal honor to ever be granted the chance to shake the hand of the retired USMC Commadant who did this and to thank him. The USMC ARE the only branch of serivce that maintained their standards,their traditions,and their training.

If you have read many of my posts about the modern US military,you would have read where General Shelton (the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) should be immediatelly and FORMALLY "drummed-out" of the US Army,right down to the public ceremony where a senior officer tears off all his badges of rank and medals,and the drummer beats time as he marches off base in disgrace,losing ALL pay and benefits. THIS is when I'm in a good mood. When I'm pissed,I want him shot be a firing squad for criminal derlection of duty that will SURELY cause the deaths of young soldiers that wouldn't have died if they had been properly trained and led. The Navy is even worse,making Shelton look like John Wayne. There is NO case where the Naval brass weren't anxious to bend over and grab their ankles anytime Bubba cleared his throat.

The FACT is we've got a VERY tough job to do, the parameters of which I do NOT think any of us, from our leadership on down, really understand right now.

Why don't you think they understand it? I understand it perfectly,and I am just a former NCO. I'm even willing to give them advise for free,if they give me a rifle in return and let me get close enough to make some personal observations. Some of these young guys are just WAAAYY too damn cocky!

We're headed into completely unfamiliar territory, and I suggest that within a year or so we are going to see that NO ONE had the answers immediately after 9/11/01.

Unfamiliar to who? I was running around in the jungles of Laos and Cambodia doing this crap over 30 years ago,and I damn sure wasn't the only one!

We will see that it's going to take the combined efforts of all the uniformed services, and a willingness to adjust to this new situation.

This is only news to you and others who have never served. I'll bet you didn't even know that the US Army SF and Force Recon from the USMC sometimes train together,did you? That's right,there are USSF people running around Camp Legune,and USMC Force Recon people going to the Special Warfare School at Bragg. All YOU see as a civilian is different uniforms. This blinds you to the fact that there are professionals wearing the uniforms who understand that the ONLY important thing is victory.

Therefore, chest-thumping, p*ssing contests and finger pointing at each other is stupid and pointless.

I guess it might look like that to a outsider,but this is just a game we like to play with each other,and WE all know it is just a game. I LOVE to do stuff like bust a Marine officers chops by giving him a BMG to carry,and then ask him how he can call himself a Marine if he carries a weapon without a bayonet lug. The last one I pulled this on was a young Captain,and he agreed with me. The next time I saw him he had a bayonet duct-taped to the flash suppressor of his MAG-58. This guy was GOOD!

See,what you AND bin Laden (NOT equating the two of you in ANY moral respect!) fail to consider is the TRUE nature of the average American. They (and probably you too) see the "feminized,PC,scared to piss anybody off" office or factory worker,and assume we are mice. As smart as bin Laden is,this one miscaculation will end up killing him. He judged us all by Bubba and his cowardly running mates,when the truth is there is no group of people on the planet earth more violent or aggressive than Americans. In fact,most of our ancestors were either kicked-out of Europe or left one jump ahead of the hangman,and that's why we were born here to start with. Stop and think about THIS for a minute,ok? How weird and viiolent do you have to be to have the Irish and the Scots want to be rid of you? The majority of southern US citizens are of Scots/Irish descent,and many are like me and have Indian ancestors,too. My own Indian ancestors wiped out a whole English settlement in the 1700's,and the English actually paid them to move away. The Indian blood in many Americans didn't exactly do much to mellow them out.

Nope,old bin Laden also made the same mistake you made on this thread. He looked around and saw us all fighting amongst ourselves,and figured we were not united. BIG mistake! What he thought was self-destruction was practice. We don't have anybody else to fight,so we fight each other untill a better target comes along. bin Laden self-elected himself,and he is screwed. This is a mistake you only make once.

Probably the best way to illustrate this is to look at a Bull Mastiff. He is one HUGE-ASS dog,but it's not real easy to get him excited. Hell,it almost takes a explosion to even get his attention. Now compare him to that furry cockroach called a French Poodle. These little ratdogs are ALWAYS excited,running around and yapping at everything in sight. He can even yap at the Bull Mastiff,and rarely get the Mastiff to raise his head in recogonition. SOME poodles might take this as a sign of fear on the Mastiff's part,and get cocky enough to nip at the Mastiff's flanks and wake him up. BAD move. FINAL move.

I hate to be TOO obvious,but America and the US military are the Bull Mastiff's here,and bin Laden and all these other terrorists ARE the French Poodles. They managed to wake the sleeping Mastiff,and now they are lunch.

[CHIEF negotiator]

Gimme my Remington 700 with a floating barrel, and I'll still pic-a-tic off a gnat's ass @ 1K meters.

Anyone else here shoot expert on the rifle range, in the rain, with an M-1?

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"Illbay, I am so grateful to learn that when our military forces are fighting for our freedom,
YOU will be here ready to read poetry for us all..... it is such a comfort!"

You are too funny!!!!!!!!

[sneakypete]

Those exact accoutrements were also to be found at the SF dining hall at Sukiran.

You were in the 1st,too? I was there from 65-67. Best damn kept secret in the army at that time. Well,that and "Detachment A".

[sneakypete]

A green beret would work, too. See #161

Sorry,I can't agree here. Get caught trying to pass yourself of as a AF EM in order to eat would be no big deal. Get caught stealing a beret and trying to pass yourself off as SF could be a VERY painful experience. Not to mention a LOT harder to do when everybody knows everybody else on sight.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

You posted TO COBI:
You mean you don't have your dress blues graduation picture beautifully framed hanging above your 'puter?

I don't know what COBI has to say but my ship IS my desktop background and has been forever.

[CHIEF negotiator]

Nice Yacht, Tonkin.

[COB1]

Doggone, Tonkin, that's a NICE ship!
I'm going to steal it (the pic, I mean)!

[WhyisaTexasgirlinPA]

My husband served in Beirut in 1983, F/2/6 - and would proudly join his fellow Marines if they would take "an old man"..... lol..... If you know any Beruit Veterans please contact me - he is looking for them for a reunion.... Semper Fi from a Marine Wife.....

[JoeSixPack1]

I did it with an M-14, then 2 days later with an M-16. But i don't think it was raining.
Expert Rifle and Pistol. Got pistol ranking at Lejeune. I was in boot during the M-14 -M-16 transition. The 14s we were issued had wooden stocks, so linseed oil was available on our 20 min freetime before lightsout.

(did you have 20 min freetime?? hehehe)
2 days before graduation inspection we were re-issued all M-16s to grad with. They all had plastic stocks. The inspection team of DI's (I found this out 4 months later) had a midnight brawl with my Senior DI in town the night before.

My platoon failed inspection. One of the most BS ratings we were informed we had was "Too much linseed oil on our weapons stocks", but we all had newely issued, plastic stocked m-16s. Boot Camp inspections----OH JOY...

Don't mind me, just ranting...Semper Fi

[COB1]

Actually, CHIEF, I don't like that "make-you-look pretty" pic. It took a lot of air-brushing on that one.
That one was done in 'Dago on my first liberty and before the first bar.
I've got my graduation picture somewhere that is definitely not pretty.
I was right guide; I had just eaten one of the screw-ups and was looking for seconds.

[LadyX]

(shhhhh, Tonkin - CHIEF is trying to throw us off by asking COB1 that question.
He's trying to hide the fact over HIS computer is that famous pose of him in the shrubbery that he kisses goodnight after he logs off..:)))

Don't ask - don't tell!!!

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"Anyone else here shoot expert on the rifle range, in the rain, with an M-1?"

In '68 before we left Norfolk for Viet Nam myslef and about 20 other shipmates
went to a "landing party" training course taught by Marines.
The Marines were "suprised" that I knew so much about weapons smaller than a 5" 38 caliber gun mount.
And they were in awe with my shooting ability.
Well what they found out was that I was also in charge of the ships armory
and only the Captain, Weapons Officer and I had keys and access to the armory.
I never "tested" to see how well I could shoot in the rain
BUT I could hit targets thrown overboard from a Destroyer
while we were at sea with the ship rolling and swelling around.

[CHIEF negotiator]

Try the Marine Chat Room.

[COB1]

"that famous pose of him in the shrubbery "

Yeah, I remember that one !!
Don't ask, don't tell!!
LOL!

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"Nice Yacht, Tonkin."

Just goes to show you that Marines can spell Yacht the right way,lol