Marines do it their own way

MSNBC ^ | 9/30/01 | Sue Lackey

[kattracks]

A different approach to special forces
A Marine awaits orders during urban war training exercises last week at Camp Pendleton, California.
By Sue Lackey MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR

Sept. 30 —  For the average Marine, it is both amusing and a bit galling to hear all the talk about “special forces” and their capabilities. For while the Army, Navy and Air Force have created Special Operations Commands with a unique structure, the Marine Corps has taken its basic forward deployed unit — the Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) — and trained every one in special operations tactics.

THE FAMED Delta Force is often celebrated as the nation’s most elite special operations team, but its position as a member of the the Army’s Joint Special Operations Command gives it a narrow focus restricted to counterterrorism and hostage rescue. In contrast, each MEU must be qualified in 18 separate mission areas, including counter terrorism. This broad focus in training and qualifications makes the Marine unit more versatile than any other service’s special operations forces.
       Gen. Alfred M. Gray, who served as Commandant of the Marine Corps in the early 1980s, helped create the Joint Special Operations Command. But while the command often requests Marines to flesh out its capability, the Corps is the only service which has refused to join the command at an organizational level. “It goes against the reason the Marine Corps was developed,” says a Marine officer who is a special operations specialist. “It would have forced the Corps to focus on one mission, when the nation needed an amphibious force for forcible entry, with much broader capabilities.”
       Under a recent reform of the system, traditional special operations forces forces are assigned to specific theater Commanders in Chief — for instance, the Commander in Chief, Europe or the Commander in Chief, Southern Command, which handles Latin America. East of these commands have units with specific specialties, and depend on that regional commander for support. MEU’s, however, an amphibious force that can be deployed at will to any theater. Their floating base of operations gives them the ability to sustain a mission longer than other special operations forces, which are traditionally used for short term insertions, or in the case of the Green Berets, specific insurgency training missions.
 

      The true strength of the MEUs lie in their ability to augment their forces with air and ground combat elements and combat service support. This means any given unit can call in tanks, amphibious assault vehicles, and fixed wing aircraft — all of which are part of standard MEU order of battle. Other special operations forces must rely on conventional service support when additional forces are needed.
       A perfect example of this versatility was in the 1983 Grenada invasion, where Army special forces were inserted to extract U.S. Embassy staff. The team was able to reach their target, but were then bottled up inside the embassy and unable to get out through enemy troops. The JSOC team then called for Marine support. An MEU which had been diverted to Grenada broke through with tanks and armored vehicles to extract their colleagues and the embassy personnel they had rescued.
       The way in which special operations training has been integrated into the basic structure of the Corps has changed the capabilities of the Corps as a whole. The other military services are large enough to allow their SF units to function in some degree of separation. Because the Marine Corps is so small in numbers, its SOC qualified personnel rotate on duty throughout the Corps, which has enhanced the overall quality of training and identification with special operations forces. Most of these men have now percolated to the top of the command structure. “It’s been in place so long now that a lot of the flag officers grew up with this-they’re Al Gray’s boys,” said one Marine special operations veteran. “That’s what you do not get in the other special forces, because they tend to stay in their own areas. When they do go into other units to further their careers, they have problems integrating within the conventional forces and its military bureaucracy. They don’t do well as staff officers; they want to go back to their unit.”
       That lack of experienced special forces officers at high levels to give special forces a voice allows other branches of the conventional forces to marginalize the effectiveness of special operations in budget battles and mission planning — a situation the Marine Corps has managed to avoid.

       

[jo6pac]

Got a good laugh out of that one. "Huh?" was about my reaction when I first dined in an AF mess at Kadena Air Base. Little tables that seat 4, cloth table cloths and napkins, real coffee cups and plates, and man the grub was good

Those exact accoutrements were also to be found at the SF dining hall at Sukiran.

[onedoug]

Operation Bold Mariner, USS Ogden LPD 5, bump!

Big ARMY thanks to the NAVY who transported us, put us ashore and gave us fire support all the way inland. It mattered.

[jo6pac]

In fact,I would like to go on record right here to advise the young Marines and soldiers to either buy or steal a USAF fatigue uniform right now so they will already have it when they deploy.

A green beret would work, too. See #161

[jo6pac]

Shame on you!

The beauty of the internet for some is that they can say things that they would not dare say face to face.

[RottiBiz]

Therefore, chest-thumping, p*ssing contests and finger pointing at each other is stupid and pointless.

Actually, I was quite enjoying the contests. Why would YOU want to spoil their spirited discussion?

These men have earned their bragging rights! They deserve our utmost respect and appreciation and they have mine.

God bless you all.

[JoeSixPack1]

Hi Jo6

AF mess at Kadena Air Base. Little tables that seat 4, cloth table cloths and napkins, real coffee cups and plates

The NCO mess at Lakland AFB back 69 had doilies(sp), I can't even spell doilies!! hehehehe those round paper cutout things. Use about 6 of em to make a beer coaster. You know how those flyboys like the delicate things in life, doilies, toilet paper, spoons. Hell, if the SOS at any Lejeune messhall was still warm when it hit the metal plate we were excited!!! :-)

[CHIEF negotiator]

Perhaps this explaination will give you a better insight:

Who is Force Recon?

Force Recon is romping, stomping, hell, death and destruction. The
finest fighting machine the world has ever seen. We were born in a
bomb crater, our mother was a grenade launcher, and our father was the
devil. Each moment that I live is an additional threat upon your life.

I am a rough looking, roving soldier of the sea. I am cocky,
self-centered, overbearing, and I do not know the meaning of fear. For I
am fear itself. I am a green, amphibious monster made of blood and guts
who rose from the sea, festering on anti-Americans throughout the
globe. Whenever it may arise, and when my time comes, I will die a
glorious death on the battle field, giving my life to mom, the team and
the American flag.

We stole the eagle from the Air Force, the anchor from the Navy, and
the rope from the Army. On the 7th day, while God rested, we over-ran
his perimeter and stole the globe, and we've been running the show ever
since. We live like soldiers and talk like sailors and slap the hell outta
them both. Soldier by day, lover by night, drunkard by choice,

RECON BY GOD!!!

USMC 2nd Force Recon (Scout Sniper ’67 – ’73)

[jo6pac]

Hell, if the SOS at any Lejeune messhall was still warm when it hit the metal plate we were excited!!!

Earning the moniker, The Crotch, has taken lots of lousy food, among other things. LOL!

[JoeGar]

"... two US military units that NEVER get the recogonition they deserve are the Air Commandoes and the US Coast Guard rescue swimmers."

The Jolly Green Giant rescue paramedics, who rescue downed pilots, are at the top of my list of those who don't get enough recognition.

[COB1]

"Therefore, chest-thumping, p*ssing contests and finger pointing at each other is stupid and pointless."

Pig Latin Bill, you're about as welcome on this military thread as a pissant at a picnic.
Until you get some bragging rights of your own, don't try to denigrate ours.
It's really none of your business.

[wzlboy]

I have a close friend who was in USMC. He flew a COBRA and also was the pilot for POTUS on Marine-1. H also fought in the Gulf war as a reservist. Semper Fi!!

[LadyX]

"The FACT is we've got a VERY tough job to do, the parameters of which I do NOT think any of us, from our leadership on down, really understand right now. We're headed into completely unfamiliar territory, and I suggest that within a year or so we are going to see that NO ONE had the answers immediately after 9/11/01. We will see that it's going to take the combined efforts of all the uniformed services, and a willingness to adjust to this new situation."

My, my Oh, Enlightened One!... we surely would never have caught on to that, all us ignorant, unwashed masses out here SO in need of your guidance.

Noting your refulsal to answer the questions I earlier posed to you, and that you continue with your redundant hogwash, WE caught on before the ink dried on the opening post of this thread.

You seem incapable of having grasped the elemental facts (that we assumed long ago in our own life experiences) until suddenly they have just came into focus for you, repeating over and over the revelation!!! Well, EUREKA, I say, Mr. Johnny-Come-Lately."

To be honest, our image of you now is you SEEM to be at sophomore level in college or even high school, probably most of us 'grasping the facts of non-understanding' before you were born.

Our bragging rights come from having 'Been There - Done That' in wars you now study in books with white pages and black print.

You dare to speak DOWN to the REAL MEN represented on this thread, having EARNED the right to stand tall and be proud...SHAME ON YOU in your ignorance for your puny taunts.

[Illbay]

If you want to BRAG, go to it. If you want to defend those who slam other branches of the service, then you are the adolescent I suspect you are.

[LadyX]

"If you want to defend those who slam other branches of the service, then you are the adolescent I suspect you are."

Amazing how you continue to dig yourself deeper into the ground with each reply!
Your playground level diatribes reveal you have NO military background to give you a clue about those you address here.

I will say the words slowly so you can perhaps comprehend...
T-h-e-r-e / a-r-e / n-o / S-L-A-M-S here !!
Just good-natured jousting among brothers - all parts of a greater whole, each with different assignments and requirements.

You really should withdraw quietly from something you never will understand.

[jo6pac]

We stole the eagle from the Air Force, the anchor from the Navy, and the rope from the Army. On the 7th day, while God rested, we over-ran his perimeter and stole the globe, and we've been running the show ever since.

The Eagle, Globe and Anchor


The history of the Marine Corps emblem is a story related to the history of the Corps itself. The emblem of today traces its roots to the designs and ornaments of early Continental Marines as well as British Royal Marines. The emblem took its present form in 1868. Before that time many devices, ornaments, and distinguishing marks followed one another as official marks of the Corps.

In 1776, the device consisted of a "foul anchor" of silver or pewter. The foul anchor still forms a part of the emblem today. (A foul anchor is an anchor which has one or more turns of the chain around it). Changes were made in 1798, 1821, and 1824. In 1834 it was prescribed that a brass eagle be worn on the hat, the eagle to measure 3 1/2 inches from wingtip to wingtip.

During the early years numerous distinguishing marks were prescribed, including "black cockades, "scarlet plumes," and "yellow bands and tassels." In 1859 the origin of the present color scheme for the officer's dress uniform ornaments appeared on an elaborate device of solid white metal and yellow metal. The design included a United States shield, half wreath, a bugle, and the letter "M."

In 1868, Brigadier General Commandant Jacob Zeilin appointed a board "to decide and report upon the various devices of cap ornaments for the Marine Corps." On 13 November 1868, the board turned in its report. It was approved by the Commandant four days later, and on 19 November 1868 was signed by the Secretary of the Navy.

The emblem recommended by this board has survived with minor changes to this day. It consists of a globe (showing the Western Hemisphere) intersected by a foul anchor, and surmounted by a spread eagle. On the emblem itself, the device is topped by a ribbon inscribed with the Latin motto "Semper Fidelis" (Always Faithful). The uniform ornaments omit the motto ribbon.

The general design of the emblem was probably derived from the British Royal Marines' "Globe and Laurel." The globe on the U.S. Marine emblem signifies service in any part of the world. The eagle also indirectly signifies service worldwide, although this may not have been the intention of the designers in 1868. The eagle they selected for the Marine emblem is a crested eagle, a type found all over the world. On the other hand, the eagle pictured on the great seal and the currency of the United States is the bald eagle, strictly an American variety. The anchor, whose origin dates back to the founding of the Marine Corps in 1775, indicates the amphibious nature of Marines' duties.

[Illbay]

Sonnet XIX: When I Consider How My Light is Spent

John Milton

When I consider how my light is spent,
Ere half my days, in this dark world and wide,
And that one Talent which is death to hide,
Lodg’d with me useless, though my Soul more bent
To serve therewith my Maker, and present
My true account, lest he returning chide;
"Doth God exact day-labor, light denied,"
I fondly ask; But patience to prevent
That murmur, soon replies, "God doth not need
Either man’s work or his own gifts; who best
Bear his mild yoke, they serve him best; his State
is Kingly. Thousands at his bidding speed
And post o’er Land and Ocean without rest:
They also serve who only stand and wait."

[jo6pac]

They also serve who only stand and wait.

Thanks for your service

Welcome home

[COB1]

You still don't get it, Junior.
Let me try it this way:
My brother was career Navy, fought in the Pacific in WWII, his destroyer sunk with most hands lost.
If he were alive today, I'd throw jabs at him about the superiority of the United States Marine Corps over the U.S. Navy, but you can bet that I have always been proud of his service to his country, and I'd whip anyone who tried to belittle his sacrifice.
The military of the United States is a fraternity of men and women who take a great deal of pride in their own particular branch of that service, but when push comes to shove we all work together to achieve that common goal of defeating the enemy.
We don't need outsiders like you who haven't even seen military service to tell us how it's supposed to be done.

[CHIEF negotiator]

Sonnet XIX: When I Consider How My Light Round is Spent

One Shot . . . One Kill!

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

ping