Marines do it their own way

MSNBC ^ | 9/30/01 | Sue Lackey

[kattracks]

A different approach to special forces
A Marine awaits orders during urban war training exercises last week at Camp Pendleton, California.
By Sue Lackey MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR

Sept. 30 —  For the average Marine, it is both amusing and a bit galling to hear all the talk about “special forces” and their capabilities. For while the Army, Navy and Air Force have created Special Operations Commands with a unique structure, the Marine Corps has taken its basic forward deployed unit — the Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) — and trained every one in special operations tactics.

THE FAMED Delta Force is often celebrated as the nation’s most elite special operations team, but its position as a member of the the Army’s Joint Special Operations Command gives it a narrow focus restricted to counterterrorism and hostage rescue. In contrast, each MEU must be qualified in 18 separate mission areas, including counter terrorism. This broad focus in training and qualifications makes the Marine unit more versatile than any other service’s special operations forces.
       Gen. Alfred M. Gray, who served as Commandant of the Marine Corps in the early 1980s, helped create the Joint Special Operations Command. But while the command often requests Marines to flesh out its capability, the Corps is the only service which has refused to join the command at an organizational level. “It goes against the reason the Marine Corps was developed,” says a Marine officer who is a special operations specialist. “It would have forced the Corps to focus on one mission, when the nation needed an amphibious force for forcible entry, with much broader capabilities.”
       Under a recent reform of the system, traditional special operations forces forces are assigned to specific theater Commanders in Chief — for instance, the Commander in Chief, Europe or the Commander in Chief, Southern Command, which handles Latin America. East of these commands have units with specific specialties, and depend on that regional commander for support. MEU’s, however, an amphibious force that can be deployed at will to any theater. Their floating base of operations gives them the ability to sustain a mission longer than other special operations forces, which are traditionally used for short term insertions, or in the case of the Green Berets, specific insurgency training missions.
 

      The true strength of the MEUs lie in their ability to augment their forces with air and ground combat elements and combat service support. This means any given unit can call in tanks, amphibious assault vehicles, and fixed wing aircraft — all of which are part of standard MEU order of battle. Other special operations forces must rely on conventional service support when additional forces are needed.
       A perfect example of this versatility was in the 1983 Grenada invasion, where Army special forces were inserted to extract U.S. Embassy staff. The team was able to reach their target, but were then bottled up inside the embassy and unable to get out through enemy troops. The JSOC team then called for Marine support. An MEU which had been diverted to Grenada broke through with tanks and armored vehicles to extract their colleagues and the embassy personnel they had rescued.
       The way in which special operations training has been integrated into the basic structure of the Corps has changed the capabilities of the Corps as a whole. The other military services are large enough to allow their SF units to function in some degree of separation. Because the Marine Corps is so small in numbers, its SOC qualified personnel rotate on duty throughout the Corps, which has enhanced the overall quality of training and identification with special operations forces. Most of these men have now percolated to the top of the command structure. “It’s been in place so long now that a lot of the flag officers grew up with this-they’re Al Gray’s boys,” said one Marine special operations veteran. “That’s what you do not get in the other special forces, because they tend to stay in their own areas. When they do go into other units to further their careers, they have problems integrating within the conventional forces and its military bureaucracy. They don’t do well as staff officers; they want to go back to their unit.”
       That lack of experienced special forces officers at high levels to give special forces a voice allows other branches of the conventional forces to marginalize the effectiveness of special operations in budget battles and mission planning — a situation the Marine Corps has managed to avoid.

       

[Chemnitz]

I think inter-service rivalry is a good thing, as long as it does not become a crippling cat-fight over funds, etc. It often motivates men to do better. I think most people will give the Marines their due honor. However, this article gave me a lot of new information. I was not really aware of the MEU.

What you like to hear if trapped behind enemy lines? The Navy is coming? The Air Force is flying overhead? No, the Marines have landed!

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

I know that some years ago, "Jane's Armies" listed the U.S. Marines as the largest "Special Force" outfit in the world.

[sneakypete]

Your definition is about 110 years to early.

Yeah,but they named themselves. They COULD have chosen to call themselves "Cowboys of the sea","Sailors with guns",or some other snazzy title,but they CHOSE to call themselves "United States Marines".

[JoeSixPack1]

try this one,,, USMC 1st FAST (USMC's Fleet Anti-Terrorism Security Teams),, some tough hombres

http://www.specwarnet.com/americas/fast.htm

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

They also teach the Marines respect.  A number of years ago, my dad was a civil-servant working as in the out-service educational group at Ft. Eustis, VA.  He used to come home and tell us that the difference between the quality of Marines and Army was remarkable.  The marines would come in, sit on the edge of their chairs and say yessir and nossir to dad.  Furthermore, they would listen very intently to everything that my dad would say.  Additionally, they were always AJ squared away.  Totally different from the army personnel there.

[JoeSixPack1]

UNITED STATES MARINES...man, that sounds good DON'T IT?

And Furthermore-----

Marines don't Drink.
If they drink, they don't get drunk!
If they get drunk, they don't stagger!
If they stagger, they don't fall!
If they fall......
THEY FALL FACE DOWN SO NO ONE KNOWS THEIR A MARINE!!:-)

[68 grunt]

You are the only pi$$in'! Why don't you shut the hell up!

[Tailback]

whatever, see what happens when I try to pay someone a compliment. BTW it's soldiers not soliders.

[dpa5923]

whatever, see what happens when I try to pay someone a compliment. BTW it's soldiers not soliders.

Hey, your okay, man. Marines are touchy about the name thing, and I'm taking out the "Spelling for Marines" MCI today!

[68 grunt]

Hiya Pete, I gotta say that being Marine Infantry is greatest endeavor of my life! I think the Army refers to the infantry as 'the backbone of the Army', but I prefer the analogy that we are the cutting edge of the sword that is the Marine Corps. Recon is the tip of the sword, and all the components made up the heft of the weapon, but, in a fight, its the cutting edge that takes the worst damage. Best regards and Semper Fi

[Chemnitz]

I looked up the site and saved it. Thanks.

By the way, my mother has Alzheimer's. She is almost 89 and living in a group home near us.

Cigars - non-prescription medicine for all kinds of ills. Nothing like a cigar and a great magazine or book to read.

[B4Ranch]

To: Illbay

"I don't think we really, truly understand the scope of what we are facing." There are many things that you don't understand illbay, with the inter-service rivalry being just one. For a panty-waist like yourself to be calling Smedleybutter an "adolescent moron" is laughable. Why don't you tell us about your service record, illbay?

32 Posted on 09/30/2001 18:28:14 PDT by Godebert
[ Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | Top | Last ]

Answer the QUESTION!

[Illbay]

First and foremost getting 'mad' is not an option for our military. Obeying orders is.

You're absolutely correct. Perhaps I misstated. I was attempting to suggest that instead of focusing the competitive nature of members of our uniformed services on "one-upping" each other and trying to see whose p*ss-stream goes farther, it should be instead focused on the enemies of our Republic, for obvious reasons.

[Illbay]

You're hung up on these expectations of what the military should do for the "average citizen" because you as an American citizen pay their salaries.

Absolutely not. I'm trying to focus your attention on the REAL job at hand, which is NOT to prove which branch of service is "better" or "tougher" or "more highly-trained", but rather to protect and defend this nation and its Consitution.

The reason I bring up the thing about the folks that pay the salaries (and not incidentally, occasionally provide their sons and daughters for the effort) is that THEY are the ones you're defending. This is a unique country with a unique military service that is subservient to the civilian populace.

The families, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, wives, children, etc., are and should be the reason they're out there. Now that things have turned quite serious, it is time to suspend fun and games, and get very clear who the enemy is.

[Illbay]

You hit the nail on the head. When the fun and games stops, we have to understand, and bow in absolute gratitude, to the Marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen, coasties and even the merchies, who get this job done.

We are depending on them to do a job that, unfortunately, far too many in our nation don't recognize as honorable and necessary. But they will do it nonetheless, BECAUSE they are in service to the United States of America, the best and greatest nation this world has ever seen.

[Illbay]

I realize you kinda got off on the wrong foot on this thread ...

GO back to the top of the thread. I initially responded to some guy who insisted this is all about how we have to "prove" to the nation that Bill Clinton was a Commie and that all the services--save the Marines--licked his boots.

To me, it's a non sequitur. While I would hope that eventually our victory in response to a direct attack on the United States of America--something not seen for nearly sixty years previous--will renew our national pride and establish at least for one more generation just WHY we have to have a strong defense, RIGHT NOW this is irrelevant.

The FACT is we've got a VERY tough job to do, the parameters of which I do NOT think any of us, from our leadership on down, really understand right now. We're headed into completely unfamiliar territory, and I suggest that within a year or so we are going to see that NO ONE had the answers immediately after 9/11/01. We will see that it's going to take the combined efforts of all the uniformed services, and a willingness to adjust to this new situation.

Therefore, chest-thumping, p*ssing contests and finger pointing at each other is stupid and pointless.

[Walkin Man]

Marine Message to Osama: BRING IT ON!

USMC Terms:

Leatherneck: The nickname Leatherneck has become a universal moniker for a U.S. Marine. The term originated from the wide and stiff leather neck-piece that was part of the Marine Corps uniform from 1798 until 1872. This leather collar, called The Stock, was roughly four inches high and had two purposes. In combat, it protected the neck and jugular vein from cutlasses slashes. On parade, it kept a Marine's head erect. The term is so widespread that it has become the name of the Marine Corps Association monthly magazine, LEATHERNECK.

Gyrene: Around 1900, members of the U.S. Navy began using Gyrene as a jocular derogatory reference to U.S. Marines. Instead of being insulted, the Marines loved it. The term became common by World War I and has been extensively used since that time.

Jarhead: For roughly 50 years, sailors had little luck in their effort to insult Marines by calling them Gyrenes. So, during World War II sailors began referring to Marines as Jarheads. Presumably the high collar on the Marine Dress Blues uniform made a Marine's head look like it was sticking out of the top of a Mason jar. Marines were not insulted. Instead, they embraced the new moniker as a term of utmost respect.

Devil Dogs: The German Army coined this term of respect for U.S. Marines during World War I. In the summer of 1918 the German Army was driving toward Paris. The French Army was in full retreat. In a desperate effort to save Paris, the newly arrived U.S. Marines were thrown into the breach. In June 1918, in bitter fighting lasting for weeks, Marines repeatedly repulsed the Germans in Belleau Wood. The German drive toward Paris sputtered, fizzled, and died. Then the Marines attacked and swept the Germans back out of Belleau Wood. Paris had been saved. The tide of war had turned. Five months later Germany would be forced to accept an armistice. The battle tenacity and fury of the U.S. Marines had stunned the Germans. In their official reports they called the Marines "teufel hunden," meaning Devil Dogs, the ferocious mountain dogs of Bavarian folklore.

[JoeSixPack1]

Military "one-upping" is a peace time recreational activity.
"Peace Time" being the important point here.

The hardest of times comes to the military during a prolonged peace. The old warriors on this page know that fact all to well. Of course, when the peace is disturbed, who ya gonna call?

Still waiting for you to state your military experience.

[JoeSixPack1]

Jarhead i thought, was in reference to our white side wall (shaved to the scalp ), flat top haircuts, made our heads look like the top of a jar.
We gave the neck references a rest after leatherneck. :-) Semper Fi

[Walkin Man]

This dog WILL hunt!!!

Thanks to freeper Mama_Bear for this great image!